"Understanding going in that you can produce an amazing-looking-sounding-design-well-everything product. But it means nothing if you cannot be able to attract the dollars."-- Roland Martin

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ROB RICHARDSON
Welcome to Disruption Now. I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. I'm excited to have my man, Roland Martin from Roland Martin Unfiltered. He's interviewed presidents. He's now got the only daily digital show that features all things black -- from sports to politics. I have the pleasure and honor of being a regular contributor on the show. -- Roland, how are you doing, brother?

ROLAND MARTIN
Man, all good. All good.

ROB
Yeah, man. I love everything about Roland. He only made one mistake in life. He went Alpha Phi Alpha. But I’m still love him.

ROLAND
Well now, you know ain't nothing to do with that. No mistakes. You know you belong to a little youth group. You know that.

ROB
We still love you though. You know that. You know that.

ROLAND
You know that. You know Alpha. You know Kappa Alpha Psi. You all need that one. Come on now.

ROB
Man, look, you've been in the game for a long time and I know you have a lot of wisdom to depart being in this game, being in media, having a lot of success. I’m sure having your challenges along the way.

I'll just get right into it. Take me back to when you like first started. You can talk to the young Roland Martin who just crossed Alpha Phi Alpha, just went through Bernie Sanders and maybe a few years after and you're on your way to start your career. What advice would you give to your younger self and what advice would you ignore?

ROLAND
Well I am a little bit different because for me and media, we go back before college.
ROB
Oh okay. Tell me more.

ROLAND
Yeah. And I know this may sound strange but there is no additional advice I would give because I did exactly what I was supposed to. So I went to a communications high school -- Jack Yates High Magnet School of Communications. So I literally decided to do what I am doing when I was 14 years old.

ROB
Wow.

ROLAND
It's a full-scale program -- television, radio, newspaper. We had all of that. When I walked into that campus, I said, "I will be the best student that has ever come through this school of communications." Now I didn't say, “I’m going to be the best while I’m here.” I didn't say, "I’m going to be the best up until this point." I said, "I’m going to be the best that has ever walked through this school," meaning, for the future as well.

ROB
Right. You said that at 14.

ROLAND
At 14.

ROB
Wow. Okay.

ROLAND
So what that meant was that meant that I had to put myself in a state of mind where I’m going to do all that was required for greatness. That means I’m going to put the work in to learn the craft, the skill set, how to do it, how to do it fast, how to do it efficiently, to be repetitive, to learn all aspects. So I chose television. Essentially, chose a discipline, a major.

So there were some students who chose radio, others who chose newspaper, others who chose television. I chose TV as primary but I said I’m going to learn all of them. So I eventually took all the programs. Not all students did that.

Photography was not a part of the School of Communications. It was the craziest thing. It was a part of our regular school. So we had Jack Yates High Magnet School of Communications.

I had so many communications credits, they would not let me take photography class. And I was actually pissed. Think about that. I was angry that I was not able to take a photography class because for me that was a piece of the arsenal I did not have.

ROB
Right.

ROLAND
When I went to college, you had to own your own camera. Well I couldn't afford my own still camera. So I never took photography when I was in college. And I said, "The moment I graduate, when I have enough money, I’m buying my own camera."

By that point, digital cameras came around. Kodak had one of the first digital cameras. It was a Kodak DC210. I have no idea where the hell that camera is right now. But that was my first camera. And so I began to take photos.

But the point is, when I was in high school, we had professionals who were coming through. If you were in the business, you did not come through that school and then you do not connect with me. I made it my mission.

So everything about my pursuit of media, it was no different than... My high school is one of the greatest athletic programs in the state... in the country. So my attitude towards communications was the exact same as the brothers who were all Americans on a football field or who played basketball. That was the mindset.

When I became a senior, the teachers there voted me the best student there in my four years. I was the equivalent of... If you had four and five-star athletes coming out of school, I was essentially that in communications.

ROB
Got it.

ROLAND
When I go to Texas A&M, same thing. I didn't work for the school newspaper. I purposely chose not to work for the school publications because I felt they weren't real. I actually worked at the local newspaper, worked at the local television station, worked at the local radio station. So my mindset was totally different.

And I’m going to give you one, Rob. You think I’m lying but this actually happened.

ROB
All right.

ROLAND
We were writing assignments in college, a 50-minute class. So they would give you a sheet of paper and they would say, "Take this set of facts and write a story." Okay, no problem. I came to class 15 minutes late and I left 15 minutes early. Got the paper back. I made 84.

Professor says, “I want to talk to you.” She goes, "Had you applied to yourself? You could have made an A if you had come on time and you stayed the whole time." This is literally what I told her. I said, "I don’t care about your A." She said "What?" I said, "I don’t care about your A." I said, "The A was not the mission." She goes, "Well what was it?"

I said, "When I graduate, I’m going to have to be able to take a set of facts that I’ve reported and write a story in 20 minutes. If I do not know how under pressure to write a story in 20 minutes then I’m not going to be able to do it when I’m actually getting paid for it which means I’m not going to be able to have a job.”

“So here's what you're going to do. You're going to tell me how I made an 84; how I didn’t make a 90 or a 95. And then the next assignment we have, I’m going to walk in here 15 minutes late, I’m going to leave 15 minutes early but I’m going to know what's required to at least make a 90."

ROB
[Laughter] That's a good one.

ROLAND
Dude, she was hot. She was ticked with me. We clashed constantly because... I had other professors who pulled me aside who said, "Roland, you're not like them. You're different. I’m going to teach you differently." So the advice I would say to a younger Roland is to go harder than you did.

ROB
And the advice to ignore sounds like don't listen to people that tell you have to fit into this predefined way of what success is supposed to look like.

ROLAND
Bro, seriously, I had an English professor... It was a Tuesday-Thursday class that was an hour and 15 minutes. It was like 8 to 9:15, had tests... He said, "I need to talk to you." I said, “Okay. Fine.” He goes to this whole deal, "You come to my class late. You did this. You made this on the paper." I said, "Man, look, I don't give a shit about your class."

ROB
[Laughter] I see your pattern. You must be a disrupter early on.

ROLAND
I said, "I don't give a damn about your class." I said, "I don't give a shit about an A, a B or a C." I said, "Let me explain something to you. You want me to read a hundred pages of your assignment that actually has no value for me right now." I said, "I’m here to get a sheet of paper." I said, "A sheet of paper. No one is going to ask me about my grades. No one is going to ask me about my transcript. It's a sheet of paper. This is a conduit to a job."

ROB
It's not even a conduit anymore to a job. It used to be. I think college is good for some... particularly what college you go to, for networking, some other things, but you have to learn how to learn.

ROLAND
Yeah, there's value. Let me be real clear. This is not for every discipline. I am in a skill set business. And so I told him, I said, "Dude, I’m working for the local newspaper and if I got a choice between investing four, five, six hours in my craft of media versus reading your hundred pages, I will never read your hundred pages."

I said, "So here's the deal. I need you to understand me. I am not wasting my time doing your assignments. I’m going to walk out of your class with a D because the time I am going to spend killing myself to make an A or a B, I can apply it to the field I’m trying to go into because I want to make an A there."

ROB
Right.

ROLAND
I said, “It's 24 hours.” Dude, when I say my man was hot, I said, “Don't matter.” I had job offers when I was in college. So what he didn't understand was that I was already fully aware of what my field required and so I was--

High school was my undergraduate. College was actually my graduate school. So I walked out of the campus of Texas A&M way ahead of seniors. I was sitting in classes killing seniors in journalism. And so I, in essence, constructed a curriculum and a learning model that was for me for what I’m eventually doing.

So that's why in the first year and a half in the business, I got promoted three times. That's how I went from a neighbor's reporter to volunteering to work on with Super Tuesday coverage in 1992 to being asked to be a part of our team that covered the Republican National Convention.

There were people who had worked at the paper for a decade who had never gotten the opportunity to be a part of the team that covered a national political convention. Bro, I was on it in seven months.

ROB
I’m going to come back a little bit in your journey in a minute but I want to get a sense of what you feel about this current media environment right now in terms of... It's a lot different from when you started then, right?

ROLAND
Yeah.

ROB
What's your perspective on the current environment and how you have to adapt to this environment?

ROLAND
I saw today then.

ROB
So you saw this trend coming of [video - 12:32] content?

ROLAND
I saw today then.

ROB
Okay.

ROLAND
A coach told me in high school, "Pick one discipline." I said, "Nope. I’m learning them all." I went to college. "Roland, you need to focus on newspaper." "Nope." "Well focus on television." "Nope." "Focus on radio." "Nope. I’m doing all of them."

When I got into newspaper, it was the first... You're talking about 1992. I was already there when it comes to computers. I remember covering Hurricane Andrew and I said, "Yo, I need a laptop first light" because what they do, they were phoning stories." I’m like, "No, not going to happen."

When I got to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, same thing. We covered the Branch Davidian when it burned down. I was a part of the team that did that.

They had these things that were called the... They were called “TRS-80.” The Radio Shack, I think, was a TR-80. Basically, it was the first version of laptop. Essentially, it was a computer that had a three-line LED screen. It wasn't even a full line. It was like--

ROB
Right.

ROLAND
So I remember I had to write this story. I said--

ROB
I don't know. See, I’m not quite that seasoned but I’m old enough--

ROLAND
Bro, this is how bad it is. You scan your stories. That's when you had to unscrew the phone…

ROB
Oh wow.

ROLAND
…connect the alligator clips to the wires in the phone to transmit your story to the newspaper.

ROB
Yeah, I don't even know what… But yeah, I know what you mean.

ROLAND
Now mind you, this is me… Literally, this is me at the computer: “I don't know what this is. I’m sorry. You all know what's happening in the world?“

Now to understand, Rob, when I see it, when I was in college, we used to have all these trade publications in our journalism library. These were the magazine editor and publisher broadcast, electronic media but also we had the publications that publishers and general managers where in. Dude, they just sat there. I read them.

So I was sitting here reading about re-transmission, Sinn Féin -- all these different things. People are like, "Dude, what are you doing?" I said, "You cannot be in the business and not be a student of your business. What are you doing?"

ROB
Yeah. The most important asset you have and no matter what you do is the ability to learn and keep learning.

ROLAND
And that's the piece. So what was happening, I said, "No, no. no. I’m not about to learn one thing. I’m learning everything." I say, "You all, we are moving."

I read a book on the Bingham family. They controlled the newspapers in Kentucky. They were the first newspaper to go digital. Dude, I’m reading about that. When I get to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in 1993, they launched this thing called "StarText." The newsroom was like... Man, I don't know what the hell... I was like, "What you all doing?" I was like, "Tell me about this here? How are you all doing this here?"

Bro, there were 14 floppy disks that you had to load into your computer to load the software. So I’m talking to them, "So how does this work? Tell me about it."

The rest of the whole newsroom, I don't know what the hell they doing. Bro, I’m down there talking to them. I’m sitting here talking--

So I’m sitting here paying attention. I’m sitting there going, "You all, this thing is about to change." Newsprint prices skyrocketed. News hole decreases. People are mad because they used to write a 25-inch story, now it's 15-12 inches.

Well we would have the state of the paper addresses. They would skip it. They’re like, "Wait. Why are you going?" I said, “Because I want to know about the damn business.” So I’m learning about... Okay, so newsprint prices increased and so as a result... That's why our news hole went down. Oh guess what, StarText had no limit.

ROB
Yeah.

ROLAND
So I was in this constant learning mode. And what was happening, it was all about "Skill development, expand knowledge, what's next?"

ROB
Right.

ROLAND
So to that professor who wanted me to focus on his English lit class, what he didn't realize is I, for the last… Jesus, now, for the last 29... Well 29 years. It will be 30 years in December because I started December 3rd in 1991. For the last 30 years, I have continued the education. I never stopped. That's the difference.

ROB
Yeah. Two things I want to say then we're going to break with another segment. Can you think about a time you failed, just whatever says in your mind -- "Failed" might not be the word -- "Setback" -- whatever you want to call it -- and you learned from that and grew from that? And I got one other question. We're going to move into another segment.

ROLAND
There's no such thing to me as "Failure."

ROB
Okay. How did you define it?

ROLAND
There are things that don't go the way you expected but it's not failure. Failure, if you fail to learn from the experience. That's the failure.

When I was fired from Tom Joyner's BlackAmericaweb.com, I acquired a Christian newspaper. It was not easy. It was very difficult. The product looked great, all of those different things, but at the end of the day, didn't have the advertising -- simple as that. It only lasted six months. But what I learned from that was tremendous. So that's sort of how I look at it.

ROB
What was the greatest learning lesson from that that applies now you think, that experience from--

ROLAND
It was understanding going in, that you can produce an amazing-looking-sounding-design-well-everything product but it means nothing if you cannot be able to attract the dollars to pay for it. That's why there are a lot of people, Rob, who... I’m a content creator.

ROB
Right.

ROLAND
Okay. Looks great. Sounds great. Who's going to watch it and who's going to pay for it?

All these folks, “Oh man. The DSLR camera, oh my goodness. The Canon C300, man, it's awesome.” Yeah but the body of the Canon C300 is $9000. You add the lenses to it, bro, it's going to cost you, essentially, 20 grand for that package. I’m watching it right here.

ROB
Yeah. I mean it’s--

ROLAND
If I can't pay for that... Oh it looks great.

ROB
Yeah.

ROLAND
I feel good. It looks great. And my peers in the business say, "Man, it looks fantastic." But who's paying for it?

Now we've been able to build my show where I bought three C300s. But when I started, I had three Canon XA25s. And then I bought three Canon 4k cameras the following year when we had additional resources to give us that flexibility and then we went to the C300s. So now I’ve got nine cameras which I can now deploy. I got more than that because I got the robotic cameras.

But the point is you're in the constant state of learning. And what you do is you tell yourself, "I can't afford the C300s today but we can make this look quality, look good, be able to have it paid for. And then when I begin to build the revenue, I now can go to the next level," which means that... And this is the key phrase here and this is the hardest. Anybody who's watching and listening is going to totally freak them out. You have to learn how to be content while being ambitious. "Content while being ambitious."

ROB
Explain that.

ROLAND
"Content while still having vision." "Content" means that if I never ever, ever was able to increase my revenue to afford the 4k cameras, I was content with having the XA25s. I wasn't sitting here going, "Man, if I could just get that, if I had that..." No, no, no. You're good.

When we started my show, we couldn't afford a set. We bought glass tabletop and swivel chairs. That's all we can afford. I did not allow what I could not afford get in the way of producing a great show.

So then when I was able in January of 2020 to afford, to be able to buy an actual set, I still was like, "Damn man, we got the set but man, the lights” -- I had to wait. They don't have the money to upgrade the lighting package.

I was content with what I had. I was thankful for what I had. I maximized what I had but I still was ambitious and had vision. But if I never ever was able to go from here to here, I was still happy here because I was still producing high-quality here. That's the whole point.

ROB
Being happy, I guess, not letting it drive you crazy or being stressed about it but also, it sounds like, not being satisfied with where you're at either; not letting it bother you that you're not where you want to be at this time.

ROLAND
Like a car. Dude, I’m not a car person. I’m not.

ROB
I'm not either.

ROLAND
I don't give a damn to a car. But the only car that I have desired, that I craved, is a Dodge Viper -- black on black. That's it.

ROLAND
Yeah, that makes sense.

ROLAND
Here's the deal: The folks at the UAW, brother General Holiefield, God rest his soul, he knew how I felt about it. He invited me to the UAW plant where they make those. When he died, the sister took his place. Said, "Roland, the invitation is still open."

And here's the deal man: Could I have bought the Dodge Viper by now? Yes. It’s probably going to cost me about $100-$120,000. I’m only going to buy that car when I have cleared more than a million dollars for three consecutive years.

ROB
There you go. There you go. So tell somebody, "You don't know what I'm making…" because it's going to be a serious car because I’m not--

ROLAND
Yeah. The Lincoln Navigator I have, I paid for it in cash. Bought it brand new in 2008. I’ve had it for 13 years. Brother, it runs just fine.

And again, I’m cool with it. Bro, I ain't got no problem… I ain't tripping when somebody keyed the left side. I was pissed but I’m not about to sit here and… the whole new car. I would ride that sucker.

Man, I will go a year and not wash it because I don't care about what you think... And this is the key: I ain't trying to impress you. It serves my needs. So the point is I know how to live within my means and be happy. I’m not sitting here, "Man, if I just had that--"

Rob, if you had a 20,000 square foot house and a private jet, I would say, "Rob, way to go." And if you said, "Roland, come with me. Fly with me on my private jet," I was like, "Cool." Bro, if we flew somewhere on your private jet and I had to fly back...

ROB
I like you're speaking this to the universe. Let's make this happen. Go ahead.

ROLAND
...I had to fly back coach, I’m good.

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