“Black businesses, stop playing yourself small. I think black people, overall, play ourselves small. We are so used to getting little that we ask for little.” -- Roland Martin

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ROB RICHARDSON
Welcome to Disruption Now. I’m your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. I’m excited to have my man, Roland Martin, from Roland Martin Unfiltered. He's interviewed presidents. He's now got the only daily digital show that features all things black -- from sports to politics. I have the pleasure and honor of being a regular contributor on the show. -- Roland, how are you doing, brother?

ROLAND MARTIN
Man, all good. All good.

ROB
I want to talk about a little bit of your legacy and talk about the current political environment as well. We've talked about a “third reconstruction” you have. That's a term that you've come up with. What is your feeling about how black people need to approach this moment no matter what industry they're in? How would you advise them?

ROLAND
On Tuesday, I’m going to do an hour conversation thing and it’s called… This is what I’m calling it -- “Black Businesses, Stop Playing Yourself Small.” I think black people, overall, play ourselves small. We are so used to getting little that we ask for little. “If you all could do a $10,000 donation…” No. Ask for a million.

ROB
Exactly.

ROLAND
See, we walk in negotiating against ourselves because we don't walk in saying, “No, no, no. This is my value. Oh no, no, no. This is my value.” I’m real clear on my value. And it's hard because we've been so devalued.

Let me be real clear. We have been highly… Let me unpack this right. We were highly valued by white people during slavery. Follow me. “We were highly valued.” We fetched top dollar when we were providing services to them. We fetch top dollar when we are providing services in sports…

ROB
Entertainment.
ROLAND
…on the production side, not when it's time to be a coach.

ROB
With that, very quickly, I’ll say two things. Value often flows through us but not to us, right?

ROLAND
I’ve been saying this lately: “Everyone has been able to monetize black culture except black--”

ROB
Black people. It is the god-awful truth. And we got to get out of our narrative and mindset, too, because we also have mindset that it seems like it's productive. The thing, Roland, when people say you got to work twice as hard to get half as much, I’m like, “No, no, no. We need to work twice as hard to get twice as much.”

ROLAND
There you go. And so if we accept to lessen the value, meaning, I have negotiated against myself… And I ain't even walking to the room yet.

ROB
Yep.

ROLAND
So when a Negro like me comes along and I walk into a room with the look on my face and I say, “That'll be $2 million…” Well this actually happened. We’ve taken $20,000 and spread it among five black newspapers. I ain't them.

ROB
Do you know what you should say? Well pretend like I’m white and give me that money.

ROLAND
I ain't them. I ain’t them.

ROB
Treat me like a white man and give me that dollar.

ROLAND
I ain't them.

ROB
[Yeah. I’m with you - 04:15].

ROLAND
And here's the other deal. Roland ain’t have the problem saying, “I’m good. I’ll leave.”

ROB
Exactly.

ROLAND
See, they were like, “Oh wait. I ain't quite used to it. Did he leave?” “Yes.”

ROB
Yes.

ROLAND
I’m not going to sit here and get… Again, I’m not on the auction block where you all are setting the value. I’m on the auction block setting my own value and saying, “We’re moving from it.”

ROB
I hear you.

ROLAND
And that's what messes… and do. This messes black people up because--

ROB
Of course it does.

ROLAND
I’ve had to deal with black people in corporate America, even in political advertising, who are like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don’t go. What are you doing?” I’m like, “Fool, what do you think I’m doing?” I know my value. And I’m like, “You are worse than white folks I’ve had to deal with because you protected Steven. You’re protecting their money and you’re telling me how dare I?” [Inaudible - 05:25].

ROB
I’ve talked about this on the show -- the black gatekeepers -- folks that… Obviously, I like diversity and inclusion. But too often, the diversity and inclusion heads or whatever you want to call them, they end up being just the gatekeepers to make their boss or make their organization look good but they don't do nothing.

ROLAND
Black folks who can… “Did he just asked for this? Did he just asked for…” “Yeah, he did.” And this is the look in my face. [Stoic expression]

ROB
That should be the look.

ROLAND
Yes, and I will walk away.

ROB
Because I would say, “Look at the numbers.”

ROLAND
You just nailed it. My deal is here. “Roland is going to deliver this.” “Well I’m sorry. Wha… Is there some other conference we’re supposed to have?”

ROB
That's it.

ROLAND
And then because they are used to dealing with black people who are going to take less, that's what totally messes them up.

ROB
Yep, that is. But look, we got to get ourselves out of this. So get the mindset right and understand our value going in. And you understand it. But we collectively have to get to that point to really understand our values.

ROLAND
There you go.

ROB
A couple of other quick rapid fire questions. What's an important conviction you have that very few people agree with you on?

ROLAND
An important conviction I have?

ROB
Or truth that you have that you hold that might be controversial to a lot of people.

ROLAND
Oh -- “What it truly means to be an unapologetic free black man.” That is scary to black people. When I ran Chicago Defender, I changed our masthead and added a tagline. The tagline was… So I changed the design, the look and everything. The tagline was, “Honest. Balanced. Truthful. Unapologetically Black.”

The investors, the guys and owners, the black millionaires out of Detroit, “How is this going to look when we go into these white ad agencies -- “Unapologetically black”?” And I said, “You think they don't know we are already a black newspaper?” I said, “So you were essentially apologizing for blackness.” They were afraid.

ROB
They're afraid. I’ve seen this play out. I’m in a union and there's a strong, strong Italian contingent and there's a strong, strong Irish contingent and they have no problem… And I have no problem with it. They have Irish events. They have Italian events. They want you to contribute to it. And when we go and talk about us, we got to go down with our head down. No, we got to end that. We got to end that especially if we want to make sure that we get the equity that we deserve.

ROLAND
Say, bro. Say, bro. I can't even tell you. I can't even tell you. Before we launched NewsOne Now… This actually happened. I still laugh at it, man. We were investing at the cable show. Alfred Liggins told me, “I see you as our Walter Cronkite, our Peter Jennings, our Tom Brokaw. You can't wear African clothing.”

ROB
[Laughter] Wow.

ROLAND
First of all, you ain't going to tell me what I can't wear on my own damn time. That ain't going to happen. I’m like, “I can't what?” Mind you, I never wore African clothing when I did Washington Watch. I never wore it on the air. He was literally saying I couldn't wear African clothing off air.

ROB
Boy, black folks can be bossier than anybody.

ROLAND
I was like, “Oh hell yes, I’m going to wear African clothing. That's what I like.” And I’ll never forget. I remember I wore this black and gold outfit to the White House Christmas party and man, when I turned that corner and he saw me… And I smiled and went [Nods]. No. You’re not going to sit here… Just because I’m the host of the show--

ROB
This is sad. You got black people telling black people not to be too black.

ROLAND
Bro, I’m not going… Black people have been like, “Man, you know, I get a little uncomfortable when you see “Unapologetically black.”” I’m like, “because your ass ain't free. That’s why. You’re not free.”
ROB
Two more questions really quick. You have a group of advisors -- they could be living or dead -- to advise you on life and business. Who are these three people and why?

ROLAND
One of them is still living -- Jonathan Rogers. Any move that I make, I call Jonathan for advice and counsel. Jonathan, a long-time mentor, fellow Alpha, smart brother.

Reynaldo Glover. He was a minority investor in Chicago Defender. He went to Harvard with Reginald Lewis. He was an outstanding basketball player at Fisk, later became chairman of the board of trustees.

I got a chance to know Reynaldo. He was great. He was blown away with me. He died of pancreatic cancer. I hate that I did not get to know Reynaldo. It was only a short period of time. Brilliant. Brilliant.

You would call him, this is what he would say… This was always his deal: “How can I be of assistance?” That was always his deal -- “How can I be of assistance?” But brilliant. I really wish I knew Rey Glover longer. I wish because I would call him about stuff. I would call him… I mean he was a sharp brother.

ROB
Yeah.

ROLAND
And Reynaldo also was an Alpha. I would add--

ROB
You got to know how to diversify your advisory board here but go ahead.

ROLAND
The third person I would… right now, the greatest black man in America, Robert Smith -- also an Alpha. So my board of three would be all Alphas.

ROB
Your board of directors is triple A. All right, we got it.

ROLAND
Right.

ROB
And I want somebody listening.... People listening need to understand. They might say, “All three black men.” “Yep.” “What about women?” These are three black men I actually have relationships with.
I know Oprah. Oprah sees me. She knows me. They send me stuff. Oprah and I don't have a relationship. We are an acquaintance. Had I been to her house? Yeah, when she had her legacy deal in her outdoor amphitheater. Had I been in her house? No. I get invited to an event, a screening. My wife went instead of I. But the bottom line, I don't have a relationship with Oprah.

So these are people who I’ve met. I’ve been in… See, this is the thing I tell people all the time. When somebody said, “That's my friend,” “You have been in their house?” “No.” “Ain't your friend.”

ROB
No.

ROLAND
These are people I’ve been to their homes. We've sat down and can be--

ROB
How was Robert Smith? Just quickly, what was he like?

ROLAND
Great guy, smart, focused, not… The beauty of Robert is that--

ROB
That's somebody I definitely want to meet. I was impressed by him.

ROLAND
He understood what happens when you're black and you start making money, how white folks attack you.

ROB
Of course. They come after you.

ROLAND
He purposely flew under the radar until he sold his company and he had his billions locked up. That was smart strategy.

ROB
Very smart strategy because they came after him right away.

ROLAND
There you go. He knew that.

ROB
Right away. I was like, “Okay, this can't be a coincidence.” All of a sudden, they’re pursuing him. Like, “Jeez!”

ROLAND
So that's the deal. So it would be those three -- three individuals who I have known, who I’ve sat with, who I’ve talked to, have bounced ideas off of. That's the three. Yes, all Alphas.

ROB
All Alphas, okay. [Laughter] Final question: You have a billboard, Google ad that is your slogan or saying. What does it say and why?

ROLAND
A billboard, slogan--

ROB
A billboard -- a saying, life, whatever.

ROLAND
Oh it’s how I already… in the show a lot of times. “We keep it real. We keep it honest. We keep it unapologetically black. We keep it unfiltered.”

ROB
I think if you listened to this show, you know why he ended that way. -- Roland, brother, I appreciate you, man.

ROLAND
I appreciate it, Rob. Thanks a lot, man.

ROB
All right, man.

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