OPEN TRANSCRIPT

00:00
it sounds like no matter what what is
00:01
sure is that sports and intended sports
00:04
in person are gonna look very different
00:06
than what they've used to be for at
00:08
least for a while that sounds like
00:09
that's gonna be they answer the first
00:10
question a new normal is that is that
00:13
the satellite we're gonna be impact
00:15
stadiums or wild if you believe we can
00:19
change the narrative if you believe we
00:21
can change our communities if you
00:22
believe we can change the outcome then
00:25
we could change the world
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welcome to disruption now
00:30
welcome to disruption now I'm your host
00:33
and moderator Rob Richardson today we
00:35
have Jeff Kaminski with Lewis Brisbane
00:38
and the law firm and he is an expert and
00:42
a adviser on all things sports from
00:44
sports venues to sports vendors to
00:48
leagues to team owners to athletes
00:51
whatever you whatever you do in sports
00:54
he can probably advise you and we have
00:56
some crazy things going on right now of
00:58
course in the world this is our
01:00
continuing conversation about the Cova
01:03
19 crisis as we continue to figure out
01:05
really Jeff how we evolved from this
01:07
moment and at this time we're just
01:09
exploring new legal fields and theories
01:12
and things that no one ever expected so
01:15
I can imagine people want to know okay
01:18
are we gonna get back to sports and if
01:21
we do what do you think the new normal
01:24
looks like how do you advise clients
01:25
through that I know that's one hell of a
01:27
low a question but for sports what does
01:30
what does a new normal look like you
01:31
think well let's let's thank you first
01:33
for having me I'm really appreciative to
01:36
join the show and to help others and
01:38
guide them through a process of just
01:41
what's going on in in our world and
01:44
first and foremost I hope everybody's
01:46
staying healthy I hope everybody is
01:48
staying safe you know because the more
01:51
where we stay healthy and the more we
01:53
stay say if we can experience and
01:55
observe you know things that we you know
01:58
maybe have taken for granted and one of
02:00
those things is sports you know in terms
02:04
of what what has happened and where
02:07
we've been I'm pretty sure the general
02:09
public and anybody perhaps watching this
02:12
is aware
02:13
what has unfolded and and in terms of
02:18
you know various teams leagues either
02:22
postponing canceling or even filing for
02:25
bankruptcy you know going through this
02:28
process obviously you know for example
02:31
everything started in the United States
02:34
on March 11th 2020 when the NBA's
02:38
suspended season and then everything
02:41
really just fell from there the Olympic
02:44
Games in Tokyo were suspended until 2021
02:47
the XFL was cancelled and filed for
02:51
bankruptcy various events in the PGA and
02:57
even the Kentucky Derby and that's now
03:00
postponed until September so there's
03:04
been a lot of issues of you know
03:07
thinking about how to restart everything
03:10
and so really what it boils down to is
03:16
what the government our federal or state
03:20
are doing and saying from a reopening
03:23
standpoint and it gets a little
03:28
complicated because that's got to get
03:30
really complicated if you put enough
03:32
federal and state because you probably
03:34
need both for if we're talking about
03:36
major we're talking about you know MBA
03:37
or cross state sports right and so
03:41
there's a lot of issues floating around
03:44
within the actual leagues for example
03:47
the NBA has talked about having having
03:52
limited workouts in specific locations
03:55
starting May 8th which I guess is three
03:57
days from now of the state thing and
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we're also talking about you know
04:04
various ideas from a major league
04:08
baseball standpoint if those can be
04:10
played in in specific locations for
04:14
example the Players Union in and the
04:16
Major League Baseball are starting to
04:19
come to a agreement and one of the ideas
04:23
floating around is that gay
04:26
we'll be resumed in specific locales for
04:29
example Arizona as a state might be
04:32
reopening sooner than other states that
04:35
are higher risk and more centric to
04:40
coronavirus and so they're talking about
04:43
creating an infrastructure and specific
04:46
locales to resume baseball but with that
04:50
said there have to be various industries
04:57
that also reopen to help the the
05:03
structure of the actual there's no
05:05
question right yeah you got it's not
05:07
just okay and I like the sports happens
05:09
it's just not it doesn't happen in a
05:10
vacuum you got I imagine hotels these
05:12
people have to eat I mean there's all
05:16
types of levels I'm sure I'm not
05:17
thinking about what are the exposures
05:20
for both the players and then the I
05:22
guess the institution's on that like how
05:24
do what how does one go about that well
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the employee the athletes are in players
05:28
are just essentially employees of the
05:31
team and so really it's an issue for the
05:36
team the ownership groups the stadium
05:38
owners and in third-party vendors beyond
05:42
just the league because obviously the
05:45
league has to allow the teams and team
05:48
ownership groups to restart but you're
05:52
absolutely right you have to think about
05:53
various hotels let me get the most
05:56
important question out there before you
05:57
do that your sounds like you're
05:58
predicting by the fall we're gonna have
06:00
sports if but minimum it sounds like and
06:02
it said like the NBA is not trying they
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still trying to have a season do you
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have any I mean because you can't
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disclose any things you but it seems
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like they're aiming that way is it not
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that not correct they're aiming that way
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but nothing has been decided
06:15
conclusively or put out for public
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consumption because everything is still
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in limbo and various you know cities
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that have sports teams and states that
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have sports teams haven't been reopened
06:31
yet so a lot is still being discussed
06:35
from a legal standpoint
06:38
you have to keep in mind that because
06:41
there have been government shutdowns and
06:43
lock downs there can't be any action but
06:46
there are definitely ideas that are
06:48
coming to fruition I know that in the
06:52
world of golf there's going to be a four
06:55
million dollar skins game on May 17th in
06:58
Florida to raise money and aid of
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coronavirus charities and they're only
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allowed to do that in Florida because
07:05
Florida's governor has reopened golf
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resorts now obviously there have to be
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certain precautions stepped up to make
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sure that there is social distance
07:16
compliance through the CDC but because
07:19
the slated state of Florida by way of
07:21
example has opened up golf courses golf
07:24
courses can choose to open up or not but
07:27
now that they're allowed to open up an
07:30
event like this in golf can happen once
07:35
again they're predicting that the
07:37
Kentucky Derby can take place in
07:39
September that can't happen right now
07:42
because there they haven't allowed
07:45
certain venues to take place to occur
07:49
but they're planning for these things in
07:51
advance so that they can reach certain
07:55
deals from a publicity standpoint naming
08:00
rights is going to be an interesting
08:01
issue because let's say you're going to
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start an NFL season in in the fall
08:10
whenever it is teams are creating
08:15
different technological advancements and
08:18
security measures to make sure they're
08:21
in compliant with CDC guidelines but
08:23
more importantly create public trust so
08:28
that people can go yesterday the putt
08:31
the Miami Dolphins publicly disclosed
08:33
that when they do reopen and play games
08:36
whenever that maybe they're going to
08:39
have a seating stadium a stadium seating
08:44
arrangements so that they are compliant
08:46
with certain guidelines they're talking
08:50
about
08:50
having maybe 10 to 15 thousand attendees
08:53
to watch a game instead of its capacity
08:57
at 75,000 they're also talking about
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changing out sections into in bowl
09:05
Suites to create compliance with
09:08
guidelines and if there's families for
09:11
example that go to the games they can
09:12
all sit together because they have been
09:15
together in the scene hold on that it
09:16
sounds like no matter what what is sure
09:18
is that sports and intended sports in
09:22
person are gonna look very different
09:23
than what they've used to be for at
09:25
least for a while that sounds like
09:26
that's gonna be they answer the first
09:27
question a new normal is that is that in
09:30
satellite we're gonna be impact stadiums
09:33
for a while that would that be a fair
09:36
assessment I think even if States and
09:40
federal governments allow it to occur
09:43
which hasn't happened yet but even if it
09:45
does I think the critical issue for
09:50
stadium ownership groups vendors of
09:53
venues hotels food and beverage any even
09:59
the athletes it's all gonna be an issue
10:02
less about legal and more about safety
10:06
and public trust yeah makes that's a
10:10
great point I mean just to hold on that
10:11
point a little bit I'll let you finish
10:13
it's you can open the business all you
10:15
want to and say you go out there and
10:17
open it but if people don't trust that
10:18
they're safe doesn't matter it does not
10:20
matter so when I hear this is my
10:22
personal opinion people are saying like
10:24
we gotta reopen the economy everybody
10:26
wants to reopen the economy from my
10:28
perspective the question is how and when
10:31
because you know if my fear is if you
10:34
don't do it right and then people lose
10:36
trust and then there has to be another
10:38
shutdown that's a lot that's he I think
10:41
that that damage is much more than the
10:43
intense short-term damage we're going
10:46
through damage I don't want to
10:47
underestimate the amount of damage
10:48
people are going through because it's a
10:49
lot but I think done wrong it could be
10:52
even more if we open up and we don't
10:54
open up right is that the that's your
10:56
assessment as well yeah that's the
10:57
general consensus from you know from
10:59
from a non legal standpoint but more
11:01
from a business standpoint I mean look
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you're in Ohio I would love to eat a
11:05
skyline Chili's my man knows where he's
11:09
brought you know the area that's good
11:11
yeah well don't don't let my Michigan
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shirt fool you I actually went to Ohio
11:16
State for Law School
11:17
okay no I know the the area very well
11:20
I'd love to you know for example another
11:24
hot oh hi Oh item that I love to have
11:27
his graters alright ice cream oh yeah
11:29
and you know also many staples to you're
11:32
doing well here absolutely of course but
11:35
the point I'm trying to make is that you
11:37
know let's say you know grocery stores
11:39
are open now but how many people of the
11:42
general public are not going to those
11:45
grocery stores in hiring third parties
11:47
like instacart or other or or third
11:54
parties like you or uber eats to pick
11:58
out that graders ice cream from the
11:59
freezer section so it's all about public
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trust and you know there's four stadiums
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Wow they might be open for business and
12:11
they actually are open for business and
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one of the things that has been most
12:15
fascinating is to see how stadiums and
12:18
arenas are trying to help out the
12:20
community now even if there are
12:22
government shutdowns the Miami Marlins
12:25
have created the stadium to open up for
12:28
testing the the there the the biggest
12:36
venue in Rio de Janeiro has become a
12:38
hospital right and unfortunately in New
12:41
York City there's a stadium that has
12:43
created housing for morgues
12:48
essentially yeah oh my god so tell
12:52
people your point you know the finish at
12:55
this stage in this corona craziness that
12:58
we're in businesses now have to make
13:02
sure they're doing more to expand their
13:04
there their social capital it's about
13:06
what you're doing the value you're
13:07
showing customers not just trying to
13:09
make money because this is a tough time
13:10
obviously
13:12
but I think the businesses that come out
13:14
of this to come out of this strong will
13:17
will do so based upon the goodwill of
13:19
the things they're doing right now in
13:21
the midst of this crisis so I think
13:22
that's smart well beyond goodwill it's
13:24
also about being business savvy and
13:27
pivoting when you need to just this
13:30
morning ESPN announced that it was going
13:33
to do a television deal with Korean
13:37
baseball because what they've decided is
13:39
that fans and people in America want to
13:43
see live baseball regardless and so by
13:46
striking that deal to show live baseball
13:49
it's now expanding its its horizons
13:52
internationally up the same sport being
13:55
played in the US what's also happening
13:57
is racecar drivers are turning to I
13:59
racing in which they're providing
14:02
virtual racing or gaming and even in
14:07
that same breath the gambling industry
14:11
in Las Vegas and the hotels are being
14:13
shut down so what are they seeing to
14:15
pivot to there's eSports or gaming for
14:20
money and that's creating an interesting
14:23
business model but now also creating a
14:26
very unique business opportunity from a
14:29
legal perspective to determine whether
14:31
in national but sports betting across
14:39
the country would be legal from that
14:40
capacity and we all know that it's it's
14:43
not legal I'm sure they're making a push
14:45
to try to get it to be legal good given
14:47
the current circumstances I'm sure the
14:48
lobbies are pushing hard lobbies are
14:50
pushing hard but it's a very interesting
14:52
pivot for gaming companies and on the
14:58
web I mean mocking and I think I should
14:59
let them do it I mean that was like
15:00
people don't gamble they do so I mean
15:05
you got whole industries that shut down
15:06
that's my I thought that that is my
15:07
perspective just off top of the head but
15:10
well there's there's a lot of recent law
15:13
on that including a case that went
15:17
through the New Jersey State system to
15:20
determine whether fantasy sports were
15:23
considered
15:24
gambling or was it a game of chance and
15:27
so you know I urge people that if
15:31
they're interested in learning more
15:33
about you know sports gambling from an
15:38
from a national context and see where
15:40
that trajectory might go I would look at
15:44
any of those legal opinions or a
15:46
colleague of mine Dan Wallach has become
15:48
an expert in gambling in in the sports
15:51
venues in not only nationally but
15:53
internationally so but it's definitely
15:56
an issue what's going on in in fact from
15:59
a virtual perspective which I think by
16:02
the way is going to be the future the
16:04
future anyway we were we were we were
16:06
already going towards the direction of
16:07
more virtual events you know now it's I
16:11
do think all the sports venues would be
16:14
wise to figure out ways to engage people
16:16
digitally because it's it's it's it was
16:19
already reducing anyway but now this
16:22
just I think you know this is gonna make
16:23
people think twice about you know do I
16:25
really want to even take the chance of
16:26
going to a big event right so here is it
16:29
here's what's being discussed so for
16:32
example if you're one of those lucky
16:34
quote-unquote lucky 10,000 and 15,000
16:37
people that wants to go to a Miami
16:38
Dolphin game in the fall with that being
16:40
the hope think about what has to happen
16:43
in order for you to actually do that you
16:46
have to go get parking you have to get
16:48
tested from a temperature perspective
16:51
you have to exchange your ticket or
16:53
through your phone to pass somebody who
16:55
is not social distancing yourself from
16:57
you you're probably gonna have they're
16:59
probably it's idioms are probably going
17:00
to need to buy thermal video monitoring
17:03
to make sure that people's body
17:05
temperatures stay cool and what happens
17:08
if you arrive at the stadium and all of
17:11
a sudden your temperature is a hundred
17:13
and that that morning and you haven't
17:16
been showing symptoms for weeks what
17:18
happens from a refund perspective what
17:19
happens in terms of getting yourself
17:21
back home safely without getting anybody
17:25
sick the alternative is the technologies
17:28
that are being created perhaps to allow
17:31
that fan experience in fact there's one
17:33
company out there I'm not going to name
17:35
them because I'm
17:36
promoting them but they're creating
17:38
virtual reality experiences so that you
17:42
can wear a headset or some space the
17:45
Florida South Florida that company I
17:46
think right there are their company
17:48
their companies in Florida but there are
17:50
there companies as well nationally
17:51
they're creating these this technology
17:54
for in-game virtual reality reality
17:57
games yep so that you can stay yeah but
17:59
you can stay long put on your helmet or
18:02
whatever it the technology is and then
18:04
watch the game as if you're sitting in
18:07
we can talk off live that's a good
18:09
company I'll look to invest stock
18:10
because that I think can go well
18:12
everybody chooses their stocks to their
18:15
own discretion that's the whole thing
18:17
exactly knows what you should stay but
18:19
I'm interested to know what that company
18:20
is because I was thinking I tell people
18:22
they have to look for the trends this is
18:23
augmented virtual reality is already
18:25
here is not commonly accepted amongst
18:27
people but it will be and when you know
18:30
when we get 5g 5 G's not causing
18:33
coronavirus by the way do not believe
18:34
that when we get more 5g that will make
18:38
it even more of a reality just a just as
18:39
a side note Jeff what do you think
18:42
though you're discussing all these
18:44
clearly complications for logistics that
18:47
have to be thought out in a post Cove in
18:50
nineteen world in sports I'm thinking
18:53
about those it what about college sports
18:56
this seems to be a whole nother level of
18:59
complication there any thoughts about
19:01
how college venue should go about this
19:04
cuz that this that just seems like a
19:06
nightmare but I'd love to get your
19:08
opinion on that
19:09
well with college sports is a whole
19:11
different animal but it falls under the
19:13
same structure of how the university or
19:17
college is going to be handling the
19:19
opening of the schools so if the schools
19:23
are not open then that the fact though
19:26
means that be the teams or the clubs are
19:30
not able to practice or participate so
19:33
let's say for example in the Big Ten
19:36
because I know we're talking a oh hi oh
19:39
and Michigan country let's say Ohio has
19:43
been great with its response and they're
19:45
opening more quickly than the state of
19:47
Michigan for whatever reason
19:48
all of a sudden you know that whether
19:52
it's the president of the university or
19:55
the athletic director of Ohio State says
19:58
we can reopen well just because they
20:00
reopened doesn't necessarily mean the
20:02
state of Michigan the University of
20:04
Michigan and the athletic director can
20:08
also say hey we're open as well and in
20:11
in in specifically college football we
20:13
all it takes two to tango so you might
20:17
not see college sports for a while and
20:23
so how did that handle with all those
20:24
scholarships it's left like that I just
20:26
wonder all those complications the
20:27
questions how would that work right
20:29
right so what the college sports what
20:31
the NCAA has has done is is followed and
20:35
trailed in what Major League Baseball
20:37
and Players Union have struck which is
20:39
providing extra years of eligibility so
20:43
in Major League Baseball what they have
20:45
allowed is for example if for example
20:47
players can make more money or or obtain
20:54
certain pension benefits if they play a
20:57
certain amount of years in baseball
20:58
so what MLB has decided is let's say
21:01
that this season just doesn't happen
21:04
it'll allow major league baseball
21:06
players to accrue that year this year as
21:10
a part of their retirement or pension
21:12
that's gonna package so the NCAA is
21:16
following suit by saying hey we'll allow
21:18
certain athletes extra years of
21:22
eligibility now what's being it's a
21:26
little complicated is which sports
21:27
because right now this has not affected
21:31
college football as much as it has
21:33
affected support both in the spring and
21:36
so you're finding that those types of
21:41
decisions are still being hashed out and
21:45
determined whether other years of
21:48
eligibility can take place what's also
21:51
happening is you're seeing a lot of
21:54
various athletes go into the transfer
21:56
portal because they fear that they're
22:00
not going to get a year another
22:01
year of eligibility or if they do
22:03
they're gonna have more competition with
22:07
the inflow of other athletes trying to
22:11
compete for their stabilized position so
22:13
example a wide receiver from respected
22:17
you know Big Ten college is gonna say
22:20
you know what I have these young guns
22:22
coming for me and oh wait there's going
22:24
to be even more athletes coming so maybe
22:27
I go to a smaller division to school and
22:30
become the big man on campus so you're
22:33
seeing that starting to unfold because
22:36
nobody knows how this is going to play
22:38
out or the art is the n-c-double-a going
22:41
to allow more athletes to be on a team
22:44
than what they already limit because of
22:48
this concern that players or
22:51
student-athletes are going to want to
22:52
transfer to other locations where they
22:55
can shine whether instead of being a
22:58
second string or third string player
23:01
where they can't show their their
23:03
talents so there's a lot of activity
23:08
going on what has recently happened in
23:10
the last 24 36 hours is the NCAA has put
23:13
out an order which has allowed after
23:16
years of being poked at the side to
23:19
allow student-athletes to have the
23:22
propriety interest in their likeness or
23:26
yeah intellectual property there are
23:30
gonna be certain limitations and there's
23:32
still a lot of questions on how it's
23:34
going to be implemented you can for
23:38
example you can whether you can use the
23:41
conference logo or the team's logo
23:43
that's or the school's logo that's that
23:46
you're not allowed to do that but in
23:48
getting these rights to be paid for
23:51
certain likeness does that mean you're
23:53
going to hire an agent well if you're
23:55
gonna allow you if the NCAA is gonna
23:57
allow you to hire an agent well you know
23:59
what agency restrictions that have been
24:02
in place are now going to get more
24:05
lenient if that even happens because
24:07
otherwise does you know a bookstore in
24:12
Columbus
24:13
go to the quarterback of Ohio State how
24:16
do they get to talk to that person
24:17
directly are they gonna have to go
24:19
through that athletic department are
24:21
they going to have to go through the
24:22
university are they going to have an
24:24
agent all those things have to be vetted
24:28
and decide in made sure the Korona help
24:31
with that that's what I know I heard
24:33
that was gonna happen for a while did
24:34
the corona change anything with that in
24:35
particular or did it just expedite the
24:38
process I would say it's pure
24:40
speculation to say that contributed to
24:42
it it's been years in the making there
24:45
been legal cases yeah I know about it
24:48
very well I've been we've had a show on
24:49
it and I thought it was utterly
24:50
ridiculous the fact that they could
24:52
leverage your likeness and you couldn't
24:54
even put like you couldn't have a
24:55
youtube show to talk about whatever how
24:58
you like sports
24:59
and then they say you couldn't do that
25:01
and you made money from it which is
25:02
absolutely absurd um go ahead the NCAA
25:07
has been poked for years and years so I
25:09
don't think it's a coincidence I just
25:12
think it was you know it happened with
25:14
with the flow of an evolution of
25:18
collegiate sports what about liability
25:20
for both colleges and institutions just
25:23
thinking about like how do you think one
25:25
might be liable if they don't make it
25:27
said they don't take any precautions and
25:29
people get sick I mean that's probably
25:31
an easy case but there's a lot of stuff
25:33
probably in between I guess is there
25:35
anything that you know as a rule of
25:37
thumb that institutions particularly
25:40
colleges I care about but you know I'm
25:42
sure the NBA and others need to know
25:43
about this but I'm thinking from a
25:45
college point of view what would you
25:47
advise folks to think about as they step
25:49
through and navigate through this
25:51
process in sports
25:52
twofold one would be if you're involved
25:56
in collegiate sports to any degree
25:58
whether you're in athletics in the
26:01
athletic department or a vendor or
26:06
participate in any respect to a
26:09
university or college there's two things
26:11
you got to consider any insurance policy
26:14
that you have with regard to any goods
26:18
and services you you either produce or
26:22
or supply because there might be some
26:25
business interruption
26:27
with those with those goods or supply so
26:30
look at your insurance policy and make
26:31
sure that there are certain provisions
26:34
that would cover you under that and if
26:37
so then reach out to your either
26:39
insurance agent I'm sure that's changing
26:42
right now the insurance agency and
26:43
everything else so that needs to be
26:44
really really specific on that right and
26:47
so that's the first thing the second
26:49
thing I would look at is reevaluate how
26:53
you negotiate and draft contracts a lot
27:00
of people especially in the sports
27:02
industry whether it's even even coaches
27:04
who I've represented don't truly take
27:08
the time to consider all the necessary
27:12
provisions in a in any type of agreement
27:15
and when I say necessary most laypeople
27:19
just care about how much am I getting
27:21
paid over what period of time and how
27:25
many do have what's the exchange of the
27:27
exact product those are called material
27:29
terms what I think people are going to
27:32
start to realize is focusing on the non
27:34
material terms of an agreement and
27:36
focusing on things that could happen
27:40
down the road it's the the phrase force
27:44
majeure is an example of a provision
27:46
that I think any person who signs into
27:49
agreement has to now consider force
27:52
majeure basically means that a contract
27:54
can be nullified or there'd be no
27:58
binding requirements for the parties to
28:01
continue business if there are certain
28:03
things that happen in an agreement
28:05
that's a great point and one of those
28:08
things that I've represented clients
28:10
then defending them on right now is a
28:12
force majeure that a provision that has
28:14
a reference to an epidemic and so I'm
28:20
allowed to argue hey my client does not
28:23
need to perform on this agreement
28:25
because there's an epidemic pursuant to
28:27
the contract sometimes force majeure
28:30
provisions don't are not inclusive of
28:33
certain things the the most common
28:35
phrase is act of God but act of God can
28:39
be subject to
28:41
lots of interpretations Asian so make
28:44
sure that if you are going to enter into
28:48
a some agreement with another party
28:49
don't go for the bare bones go for what
28:53
fully strengthens your position in any
28:57
situation and I know people just don't
29:00
want to spend legal fees but for the
29:04
people who didn't include a you know
29:07
tortious interference provision in their
29:09
insurance policy or a force majeure or
29:11
provision in their contracts well who's
29:14
laughing now you know it's a lot more
29:16
expensive on the litigation and then the
29:18
prevention is that's why I tell people
29:19
to spend on the prevention in to prevent
29:21
the litigation in because it's a lot
29:23
more expensive and way way more headache
29:25
yeah and I'm a litigator by trade so for
29:28
me I've seen a lot of contractual
29:31
disputes over the silliest of things I
29:34
had a client once who was arguing that
29:38
my my client the opposing party was
29:41
saying that my client shouldn't be in a
29:43
development center because they were
29:45
selling yogurt but the provision said
29:48
they cannot sell ice cream products and
29:52
so I had to spend a lot of time to
29:55
determine whether yogurt was considered
29:57
ice cream as a matter of law Wow and and
30:01
so you know even silly things like that
30:03
you just have to be aware of and that's
30:06
why you need turning attorneys to
30:08
represent you from a fiduciary
30:11
standpoint which means in your best
30:13
interest there's no question I mean we
30:15
attorneys out I am an attorney too I
30:17
know we tend to be the most pessimistic
30:19
about things because we're trained to
30:21
think about everything that could go
30:22
wrong but that's that's that's kind of
30:24
the job but what give you as we kind of
30:28
wrap up what gives you hope for the post
30:32
co-op in nineteen world where do you
30:34
think we turn out and maybe we turn out
30:36
better I think from a sports and law
30:40
perspective we turn out to be more
30:43
creative we turn out to be more
30:47
understanding that there could be bigger
30:50
and better improvements to our sports
30:53
stadium experience
30:55
there was already a trajectory of fans
30:57
not wanting to pay the high price
30:58
dollars to go to a venue in lieu of
31:02
staying home sitting on their
31:04
comfortable couches and eating whatever
31:06
food they wanted on an HD television
31:09
yeah yeah and so there was already that
31:12
trajectory but at least the big big
31:17
leagues were betting on their fact that
31:19
people would still go see live the
31:23
athletes they would pay eight dollars
31:25
for a hot dog they would play four
31:27
dollars for a soda and a per-person and
31:30
call it a day now I think there's going
31:33
to be a lot of changes from that
31:34
perspective there's gonna there's going
31:36
to also be an influx of non-contact
31:39
sports opportunities I think eSports has
31:43
has ridden in the last few years up a
31:46
wave and I just don't see it now coming
31:49
dad the wave coming down as soon as I
31:52
thought I think there's going to be an
31:53
increase in that you even think about
31:56
the basics we were supposed to be at
31:59
home most states were supposed to stay
32:03
at home orders well if you're a 10 11 12
32:07
year-old kid what are you gonna do at
32:09
home after you do your homework you're
32:10
gonna play video games and so I think
32:13
you're this is turned into a grooming
32:16
period for a lot of potential eating
32:19
questions and so you're gonna see a lot
32:23
of those interesting I think there's
32:26
going to be a disruption amongst the
32:27
major sports especially sports that
32:31
involve high contact but the second
32:36
thing that I'm optimistic for is
32:38
technological advancements in venues and
32:42
it way in hopefully this allows various
32:46
entrepreneurs to break into the sports
32:48
industry where they didn't think they
32:50
would you know a team that a company
32:56
that was thinking of helping out finding
33:00
people to sit in the stands and help
33:04
develop software that they could
33:06
I interact with a coach or a team during
33:11
halftime now has can pivot to what
33:14
health or medical products can I provide
33:19
to in arena yeah you know so there's
33:22
gonna be a lot of cool innovative
33:24
opportunities right and so I mean that
33:29
bags actually is a way to look at it
33:30
Jeff you know you as we in this country
33:34
in this world honestly in the midst of a
33:37
crisis has you know when we when we deal
33:39
with it right we've come out of it
33:41
stronger just look at you know if we go
33:43
back World War two it seems like that's
33:45
a long time ago but in in time it really
33:47
isn't World War two we got into there
33:50
for lots of reasons but mostly because
33:52
Japan decided to Pearl Harbor and it was
33:56
obviously very tragic going through that
33:58
but honestly that a lot of that led to
34:01
the research we have now the innovations
34:03
we have now because we really focused on
34:06
innovations it was we use that and
34:09
really focused on satellites we focused
34:11
on the internet that's how all of that
34:12
was literally came to be well I think we
34:15
take for granted now is because we
34:17
invested at that time because we we had
34:19
to look a crisis in the face and figure
34:22
out a way forward and my hope
34:24
similar to yours is that this post Cove
34:27
in nineteen world we see an opportunity
34:28
to innovate I hope we see an opportunity
34:30
to look at each other in a more humane
34:33
way and understand that we are all
34:34
connected it doesn't matter if you're if
34:37
you come from China it doesn't matter if
34:39
you Democrat Republican none of that you
34:40
know the virus doesn't ask you and say
34:43
oh my gosh Jeff are you are you
34:44
Republican today let me just let me skip
34:46
over you right I mean it doesn't at the
34:48
end of the day the these labels that we
34:50
put ourselves in are really false we
34:53
created them in order to divide
34:54
ourselves and I hope that people see
34:56
that there's a lot more that we can do
34:58
together if we're moving forward
34:59
together in your saying I mean we're
35:02
gonna ban together I mean you're
35:04
absolutely right with World War two
35:06
September 1st 1939 when the Germans
35:08
invaded Poland it created a coalition
35:11
amongst the Allies to come together and
35:15
you know invade the beaches of Normandy
35:17
yeah
35:18
June of 1944 and so what you learned
35:21
from that experience is you can come
35:24
together in to defeat a common for a
35:27
common cause and defeat an enemy in in
35:30
today's world you know you're gonna see
35:33
from a sports context you know various
35:37
people come together I mean you see what
35:40
I'm curious to see is you know
35:42
sportsmanship how that happens I mean
35:45
usually in international games for
35:49
example the the players handshake each
35:51
other or in Olympic competition after a
35:57
basketball game you know the players
36:00
shake one another in going from line to
36:02
line it happens with in peewee leagues
36:04
in United States
36:06
are people going to handshake anymore
36:08
are people going to strangers going to
36:11
embrace anymore what is going to be the
36:14
the social norm for sportsmanship I
36:19
think we're not there in that discussion
36:22
yet because we're not there yet my hope
36:24
is that we I don't know that's a really
36:26
good question right because nobody's
36:28
nobody's getting nobody's gonna do that
36:30
right now right now because people are
36:33
trying to tackle you know what's the the
36:36
the first fence right over the ferns
36:39
fest well I think the fifth fence is to
36:41
me sportsmanship in sports a
36:44
sportsmanship and how are you going to
36:48
tackle that in a inappropriate way at
36:52
least in the short term so yeah every
36:55
question when when are we going to start
36:58
sports but sports has all been all about
37:01
exercise and showing class and at the
37:07
end because if we all know that it's
37:09
it's not life it's a game and so while I
37:13
focused business on that you know for
37:17
for the athletes and teams I think
37:19
there's going to be a real interesting
37:21
struggle of how you really how you
37:23
approach that initially um yeah but
37:26
perhaps we'll have a well the logger
37:28
would have a longer discussion about
37:30
that when we we see what's happening in
37:32
because that might be part of the
37:34
precautions that sport sports leagues
37:36
that might have to advise that you know
37:38
you can't whatever which I don't know
37:40
how you're gonna do that in a close
37:42
contact sport like basketball or
37:43
football anyway but that's one one last
37:46
thing I'll say for people who are
37:48
listening you see on just general news
37:52
that there's news articles popping left
37:54
and right and from at least my
37:55
perspective you don't know what's real
37:57
you don't know what's fake you don't
37:59
know what's been vetted you don't know
38:02
what's been published by multiple
38:04
sources I can tell you from a sports
38:07
news perspective I would follow
38:10
front-office sports like Jeff send that
38:16
to me your information and yeah but the
38:20
point is what's it called again
38:22
the front office sports run on sports
38:25
okay but just make sure generally that
38:27
you're reading articles that you know
38:31
can that are vetted and from that have
38:34
been truly published with with good
38:37
merit yes because there's a there's a
38:38
lot of garbage out there you so well
38:40
said and we tell people all the time
38:42
listen not only that also see where the
38:45
source is coming from sometimes articles
38:47
can be accurate but written in a way to
38:50
draw your emotion and I think it's
38:52
really important for folks to look at it
38:55
and read it from that perspective so if
38:57
you're getting me from any partisan
38:58
point of view right and sometimes I have
39:00
part of some points of view but I'll
39:02
tell people like make sure you
39:03
understand that you okay
39:04
this isn't it this is meant to draw your
39:07
emotion a few weeks ago I saw in one of
39:11
my one of the sports blogs that I follow
39:14
that for in random news Colin Kaepernick
39:18
was signed by the New York Jets and yeah
39:22
that definitely got my interest piqued
39:24
but especially right before the NFL
39:27
Draft but it turned out to be fake you
39:30
know Wow and so you have to double-check
39:34
it was a total quick bait to get people
39:36
to say oh my from people that you know
39:38
who either love or hate Colin Kaepernick
39:40
and say oh my god I'm a hit on this and
39:42
they got probably got their they got
39:43
their traffic built to their website
39:45
which is
39:45
by the way so discouraging for someone
39:47
who wants to as a person really side
39:49
note you know you want to put out
39:50
content and not that I don't have
39:53
subjectivity and I'm not saying I'm
39:55
wrong or and I'm not wrong sometime but
39:58
I think we try to at least have a
40:00
intelligent discussion about things
40:03
beyond just you know just talking
40:06
nonsense but it's you're right I mean it
40:08
seems to be that we are drawn and I'm
40:09
not because I can't criticize the public
40:11
I probably would have made the mistake
40:12
and click on it too so I don't have the
40:13
answer I don't know but I just tell
40:14
people to not allow this world to drive
40:16
you insane and the Internet is a
40:18
beautiful thing but if you let it it can
40:20
drive you mad agree completely but in
40:23
these times there's a lot of people
40:25
trying to take advantage of a very
40:28
broken system and just make sure that
40:33
when you're reading something don't just
40:36
look at it for the impulse by sort of
40:40
speak yeah read it too and see if
40:43
there's any other sources that are
40:46
reputable sources that are coming out
40:48
with the same news or absolutely
40:50
challenge your own bias because we want
40:51
to live in a world that confirms
40:53
everything we want to believe to be true
40:55
and you know so and by the way of course
40:58
social media is programmed that way I've
40:59
had many shows on this and I let people
41:01
know like listen and they believe it's
41:03
the truth like no it's just a program
41:04
showing you what you want to see it
41:06
doesn't mean it's real it's just like
41:08
it's not it is actually your own little
41:10
virtual reality except bachelor in
41:13
paradise that's the only real thing
41:15
auntie what's that except bachelor in
41:17
paradise oh yeah that well that's real
41:19
that's real that's real that's real just
41:21
keep Bachelor paradise you're good so it
41:24
has to be real exactly hey Jeff Kaminsky
41:28
I appreciate you coming on I would love
41:30
to have you on again yeah this was fun