OPEN TRANSCRIPT

00:00
right I pray it works this time I'm sure
00:02
it's gonna work it's not working me you
00:06
can share don't worry it's almost there
00:09
no I'm just saying you can't have a
00:13
Teddy Riley well we're not gonna tell
00:15
you Riley moment cuz now I believe I
00:17
believe we're on right now so don't
00:19
worry it's not gonna be a Teddy Riley
00:20
moment so have your best look I want to
00:22
welcome everybody who is joining us
00:24
Facebook live here I'm the host of
00:26
moderator of disruption now Robb
00:28
Richardson
00:28
I'm James Keyes I'm de Orellana I'm a
00:33
Misha cross Chris Bruce all right and
00:37
we're you know we're glad to to join you
00:39
today we want to talk about what I'm
00:41
sure everybody's thinking about right
00:43
now
00:44
Ahmad Aubry and the tragedy of what
00:46
happened to him and the tragedy of the
00:49
response of what happened to him
00:50
essentially so this is a case I'm sure
00:53
you all know about it but I want to just
00:54
reflect on it from my point of view in a
00:57
neighborhood I just recently moved into
00:59
there was an alert there's a
01:00
neighborhood alert to say look you know
01:01
lots of new people are coming through
01:03
the neighborhood they're jogging getting
01:05
fresh air and activity we don't think
01:06
there's anything to be alarmed about the
01:07
want people to be on notice during this
01:10
quarantine like people are home more
01:12
than they used to be they are getting
01:14
different ways of exercising because a
01:16
lot of people can't go to their gym so
01:17
they're going out they're jogging
01:18
they're going in different neighborhoods
01:19
none of that is unusual in this
01:22
quarantine post Cova 19 world but
01:25
apparently it's unusual if you see a
01:27
black person in an area even you know
01:29
jogging in your area and this got the
01:32
attention of the people we're discussing
01:34
today who that led to a deadly encounter
01:37
that we know about right now
01:39
I couldn't have to just confess I've
01:41
seen I've gone through the transcript of
01:44
the tape I didn't want to watch the tape
01:47
I didn't and I haven't watched the tape
01:49
because I already aren't already
01:51
extremely angry and emotional without
01:53
even seeing the tape because I see this
01:55
happen so much and I am so angry about
01:58
the facts of how it even led to here you
02:00
got to yet the fact is you have what to
02:03
me seems a very clear case of a murder
02:06
that there's enough evidence that a
02:07
murder was committed to make an arrest
02:09
like we have a process in this country I
02:11
respect having a process that
02:13
respect having a trial what I don't
02:15
respect is when the process just doesn't
02:17
even function it doesn't seem to
02:18
function for us and that's really what
02:21
stood out to me because this again the
02:23
tape was clear even though I didn't see
02:24
it I trust the sources that went through
02:28
the every single description of the tape
02:30
and it is very clear that this man this
02:33
man was jogging he was minding his own
02:36
business you had these two people pull
02:38
up and try to interfere with his right
02:40
just a job and question him like he'd
02:43
like they have a certain right to
02:44
question them I didn't even understand
02:46
that and they're not he ends up dead and
02:48
I understand even less why it took two
02:51
months and essentially a lot of public
02:53
outrage to really get any results that's
02:55
what really stood out to me with this
02:56
case and that's what really got me
02:58
emotional and I have a whole lot more to
03:00
say but I want to hear from all of you
03:01
what was your first reaction in this
03:05
case I'll just actually start with
03:07
ameesha and then we'll work our way down
03:09
to Chris I want to say with Chris he was
03:11
a special guest on here because you if
03:12
any of you have seen disruption now you
03:14
know our free co-hosts are on all the
03:16
time but Chris Bruce is from the ACLU
03:19
and he's involved with this case he was
03:22
in Brunswick the other night so he has
03:24
on the ground live information and has a
03:27
lot more knowledge at this too so I want
03:29
to just thank you for coming on but I'll
03:30
start with a Misha what was your what
03:32
was your general takeaway from this case
03:34
we really stood out to you so far I
03:36
think the thing that stood out the most
03:38
to me and probably everyone who watched
03:41
originally was the amount of time that
03:44
it took for the the two guys who
03:47
actually engaged in chasing and and
03:50
shooting to actually get caught to
03:54
actually get arrested I think when I
03:55
initially saw the video I assumed that
03:57
this was recent that more than likely
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this happened possibly a week ago two
04:02
weeks ago not that this happened back in
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February and that the killers were still
04:07
out loose had never ever been jailed I
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think that was probably the most
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shocking part that the that the officers
04:14
also had this tape the reasoning that it
04:16
got a lot of attention was because the
04:17
public saw it not because the police saw
04:20
the investigator saw this was within
04:21
their within their hands from the very
04:23
beginning the fact that anyone would sit
04:25
on a murder
04:27
for that long and that no one would be
04:28
in jail was the most shocking part of
04:30
all not that this would happen you you
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know I grew up in the south I grew up in
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Mississippi the the fact that there are
04:36
white people out there who feel as
04:38
though they have the authority not only
04:40
to treat black people a certain way but
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also to follow you to engage in that
04:45
type of that that type of brutality is
04:47
not necessarily new I think that for the
04:50
most part it was honestly just the fact
04:52
that it took so long for anyone to be
04:55
arrested at all yeah I mean not only is
04:57
it not new I would say it's also it's
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not necessarily unique to the to the
05:01
south either this is something that I
05:04
will say that is something we see in
05:06
Ohio we had you know the Tamir rice case
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it wasn't a this is different in the
05:10
fact that it wasn't a this is a citizen
05:12
but you know we had oh just just a kid
05:15
just essentially lose his life for
05:17
having playing with a toy gun so we've
05:20
seen this type of stuff happen in Ohio -
05:22
I wish it was unique it's not it's not
05:24
unique to any where we kind of faces
05:26
everywhere James what was your kind of
05:28
take away from this what do you think I
05:30
mean the the time piece definitely was
05:33
something I thought that was notable but
05:36
along with that I guess a accompanying
05:39
with you know a piece of that was that
05:41
it nothing would have happened if the
05:44
public didn't get wind of this and so
05:46
and that's not again to say that it
05:48
surprised me but it really still
05:51
whenever we see these things and then I
05:52
get news coverage and then things start
05:54
to happen once the news coverage happens
05:56
then you start wonder at least I start
05:58
wondering like well man how many of
05:59
these things that if they don't get to
06:01
the to the press just we never find out
06:04
about because yeah this is February like
06:05
there's a lots happened since February
06:07
and you know like literally like we've
06:10
had a global pandemic like the whole day
06:12
yeah and and now we this goes public and
06:16
then something start to happen and up
06:18
until that point there was a lot of
06:20
cover up there was a lot of trying to
06:22
push this thing away by people in
06:24
authority positions actual authority
06:26
positions not private citizens but
06:27
people in actual authority positions and
06:29
so it just what stands out to me is this
06:33
stuff happens
06:34
I'm sure based on what we see and how
06:37
this how the dominoes start to fall
06:40
all this must happen much more than we
06:42
actually know about because it took the
06:44
public pressure for anything to happen
06:46
at this point
06:47
yeah you know Chris you're on the ground
06:50
there with the ACLU what was your
06:52
impressions particularly I mean you can
06:54
just go into a little bit of detail of
06:56
you know knowledge of the case and now
06:58
as the law on the ground here what's
07:00
your impression about how this is all
07:02
played out oh I want to be first thank
07:05
you rob for having me on and it's a
07:07
pleasure to be with the rest of the
07:08
guests here as well the rest of the host
07:11
but I also want to let people know this
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isn't the first time that the ACLU of
07:16
Georgia or the e cou has been in Glenn
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County
07:19
so back in 2018 we had started a no cash
07:23
bail lawsuit in Glenn County in which we
07:27
were negotiating with the county about
07:29
holding people especially people of
07:31
color in jail unjustly just because they
07:35
could not afford to get out so Glenn
07:37
County has a history of doing unfair
07:40
practices not only with the lawsuit that
07:42
ACLU is filed but several other things
07:45
that have to deal with boating and other
07:47
police missions to police misconduct
07:50
that has happened in the past so when I
07:52
heard that something else was happening
07:54
in Glenn County and I mostly heard about
07:56
this and mid to early April I called up
08:00
the Georgia n-double-a-cp president I
08:01
said hey I know y'all are there and and
08:04
I heard something else was happening is
08:06
there any way that we could help he said
08:08
yes and he brought me up to date on
08:09
everything again this is before I saw
08:11
the video I said okay completely
08:13
understand what do you need us to do he
08:16
said hey we would love the ACLU support
08:18
or looking into some of these issues and
08:20
we were building to that to the point
08:22
where we were trying to figure out what
08:24
was happening with the district attorney
08:26
who allegedly had said that she had
08:30
ordered the two police officers not to
08:33
arrest the people who murdered this
08:36
young man and that's when it got to the
08:38
point of we need to do more than just do
08:42
this because like you were saying
08:43
February 23rd was when the shooting had
08:45
happened and we were looking at late
08:48
April as far as doing some sort of
08:50
action because at that time it was only
08:52
third District Attorney
08:54
we all know justice delayed is justice
08:55
denied so issuing statements are saying
08:59
we want a grand jury hearing to be
09:01
conducted and knowing that they were in
09:04
a little bit more background and
09:06
probably more detailed it needs to be
09:07
run in a judicial emergency and I feel
09:11
like if you hear this story about why it
09:13
took so long for a grand jury from a
09:15
district attorney well you can't have
09:17
court with a judicial emergency but you
09:20
know what you can do you can arrest
09:22
murderers that's what you can do because
09:25
I know personally if I found somebody
09:27
jogging down the street and two guys in
09:30
pickup trucks and a shotgun murdered
09:32
them I wouldn't feel comfortable jogging
09:34
anymore so I was taken aback at the
09:36
excuses that were put forth when they
09:39
were saying well these people are still
09:41
walking free just because you had a
09:42
judicial emergency in the courts are
09:44
closed that's not justice yeah a Tunde
09:47
what was your what was your thoughts on
09:49
this I know you have many emotions mixed
09:51
around about this I think like you and
09:54
everyone else I mean emotionally it's
09:55
very difficult also made me think of my
09:59
son I've got a 21 year old son at
10:01
university now in Gainesville Florida
10:03
and those are the things that I think a
10:06
lot of people that aren't black don't
10:07
realize that as parents you know these
10:10
are the things we worry about you just
10:12
got your kid out there and somebody
10:14
harasses them and I see another thing I
10:17
started once I processed and had a
10:19
chance to think about it I thought you
10:20
know let's say they didn't kill this kid
10:21
and the Jimmy's point you know how many
10:23
times does this happen around the
10:26
country and without a videotape but
10:29
suppose they hadn't killed him let's
10:32
just say I mean think about the
10:33
harassment that this exposes that a lot
10:36
of us suffer in the United States
10:39
just because we're we look the way we
10:41
look so that's the you know it just
10:44
reminded me that there there are two
10:46
there are two realities for many of us
10:49
in the United States and excuse my dog I
10:51
apologize oh you're good it's why we all
10:53
that's why I can't go stopping but no
10:55
but but but the to reality is that when
10:57
we talk about racial profiling we talk
11:00
about things like that and that's why I
11:02
I'm really making these comments for non
11:04
black Americans that are watching this
11:06
because
11:06
we know what this is like and that's my
11:08
point the murder is so terrible on its
11:11
own but even had they not killed that
11:14
kid and had this never gone you know
11:16
national and that we all know about it
11:18
what we saw was for whatever reason a
11:21
few guys and thinking about the guy that
11:24
was filming it was part of this so you
11:26
had enough people that saw a black guy
11:28
jogging down the street and they
11:31
actually took their time to go harass
11:32
the [ __ ] out of this kid that's what I
11:34
mean had they not killed them yep
11:36
data data peddler their pickup truck
11:38
stop they too had their shotguns out I
11:40
mean what kind this is the United States
11:42
and we gotta live under these conditions
11:44
and you know a lot of people always tell
11:47
us we need to be quiet and you know like
11:48
I'm thinking that you guys are talking
11:50
this is the definition of black lives
11:52
matter and you know a lot of people take
11:55
that and turn it to say well all lives
11:56
matter and all that of course all lives
11:58
matter yeah that's that's that's a
12:00
that's not that's a way of stopping the
12:02
conversation I think you know exactly
12:04
and really what it is and I'm not
12:05
blaming like that a majority of white
12:07
people think like these people think but
12:09
I think that it's ignorant and it's
12:12
offensive for someone to say that
12:14
somehow things like this should be
12:17
either overlooked or we need to get over
12:19
it
12:19
yeah but and I'm also for the Rihanna
12:21
point of view here you you you you know
12:23
Rihanna went on and I forgot what show
12:25
was some award show and she talked about
12:27
what black and brown communities are
12:29
going through and she said you know we
12:30
got white supporters a time to pull up
12:32
like it's not enough just to just say
12:34
you support us and say like yes I'm
12:36
sorry that happened I we need this is
12:38
actually what I like to talk about from
12:40
this point of view with the panel too we
12:42
need other good heart good-hearted white
12:45
people to make sure others are checked
12:47
with this type of behavior because
12:48
clearly I don't
12:49
I mean clearly not listening to us like
12:51
we we've been saying black lives matter
12:53
for a long time it was before a black
12:55
lives matter was a slogan
12:56
there was another slogan and this is
12:58
this is not new this is a reoccurring
13:01
pattern I mean how do we really really
13:03
help I guess our white brothers and
13:05
sisters have more of a role in helping
13:08
us stop this or is this or that just a
13:09
waste of time what's the thoughts there
13:11
well can I just jump in and yeah I would
13:14
say then in a positive way I'd like to
13:17
challenge our white brothers and sisters
13:19
if we can say it that way
13:20
in a positive way I say that if we
13:23
believe in equality and and the the the
13:27
ideology of our country then we need to
13:30
ask ourselves are we all being treated
13:31
equal I think what everyone identified
13:33
about this case is good evidence that
13:35
that's not the case and the second thing
13:38
is just the Constitution right we had a
13:40
lot of people in this country talking
13:41
about you know holding up the
13:43
Constitution or what a great you know
13:45
system we have which I believe we have a
13:47
great system but where is this guys due
13:50
process and like you guys say who gives
13:52
these people the right to to to stop
13:55
somebody like this and and harass them
13:58
with a gun and then the fact that you
14:00
know like I was thinking about it like
14:01
what if a guy rolled up on me with a
14:03
shotgun now I got a thing like multiple
14:05
things well if I attack this guy and
14:07
then he kills me society's gonna say
14:09
that he was right but if I don't do
14:11
anything he might kill me anyway and you
14:13
know so so you got to go with the first
14:15
dog I mean my thing is defend yourself
14:17
first and then worry about people think
14:18
I wanted to ask answer that question
14:23
though see the thing is I think that
14:25
when it's positioned as black versus
14:28
white and this is we need white people
14:30
to come join the black people but that
14:33
is the that's the way that the people
14:35
who want to perpetuate these things like
14:37
to do it because that tries to invoke
14:39
some type of tribal response where white
14:42
people will say oh I don't really want
14:43
to attack white people
14:45
this isn't black people versus white
14:46
people this is people who believe in
14:48
justice versus barbaric uncivilized
14:50
people like these the two guys that did
14:53
this murder they're barbarians they're
14:55
they're savages they are not viewing a
14:58
justice system where where people are
15:00
innocent until proven guilty that where
15:02
you have a trial by jury where there's
15:04
equal protection under the law these
15:06
people don't believe in that stuff and
15:08
so you either side with the people who
15:10
believe in barbarism and practice
15:12
barbarism or you side with civilized
15:15
people who want to have a society based
15:18
on law and that's it yeah I think I hear
15:22
your point and I stand with James but I
15:24
see I see what you're trying to go and I
15:26
wanted me to come in because I think I'm
15:27
transitioning to what you're probably
15:29
thinking too I would do the parallel as
15:32
we talked about May
15:33
privileged I had this conversation with
15:35
a lot of black men when I talked about
15:37
you know the me2 movement how that was
15:40
going and the fact is in order to make
15:41
sure that sexual harassment stops men
15:44
have to stop like men are in the
15:46
position of power and influence and for
15:48
sexual harassment to really stop more
15:50
men have to hold other men accountable
15:52
this is my parallel to this situation I
15:54
still think that's low but how does that
15:56
say anything negative or how does that
15:58
contour my position my position is
15:59
saying that it should your skin color
16:01
shouldn't matter on whether you stand up
16:03
I'm not disagreeing with that and what
16:04
I'm saying is in order for this to stop
16:07
is what I'm saying is it's because it
16:09
does matter to people this is what I
16:11
wish it didn't but it does matter and in
16:13
order for us to any advancement we've
16:16
made in society it's because it's not
16:18
just black people it's also white people
16:20
that have also gotten involved in the
16:22
process in order to make sure they are
16:23
also checking other people who are in
16:26
their circle who are in their privilege
16:27
that we're never going to be privy to
16:28
these conversations we're never going to
16:30
be privy to those rooms that's what I
16:32
think but ameesha i mean that the other
16:34
issue that's problematic here is that
16:35
yes this is obviously a black versus
16:37
white situation but there are several
16:39
microaggressions and discriminatory
16:41
practices that actually led to the
16:44
creation of these individuals who
16:45
committed such a heinous crime one of
16:47
the things that really stood out in this
16:49
in this tragic story is the fact that
16:51
they weren't the only people who called
16:52
police because they saw a black man
16:54
jogging down the street there were
16:56
several people in that community who
16:57
called 9-1-1 not because this guy was
17:00
running down the street with stolen
17:02
goods or because this guy was running
17:03
down the street with high artillery
17:05
weapons because a black man in athletic
17:07
gear was jogging down the street that's
17:10
a problem if I see anybody jogging down
17:13
the street I don't automatically think
17:15
that they're guilty of something and
17:16
call 9-1-1 I don't call anybody I don't
17:19
even watch them jogging down because
17:21
that's a normal activity that people do
17:22
when you're in a community that has
17:24
people that do not look like you or the
17:26
majority don't look like you and the
17:28
automatic you know switch that goes off
17:30
is because I am there in a black body
17:32
doing something that average humans do
17:34
all of a sudden I'm a criminal that's a
17:36
problem and these are individuals who
17:38
call 911
17:39
the same ones the ones who jumped in the
17:41
truck with their guns and chase them
17:43
down so there's a larger thing at play
17:45
here there are a lot of people on
17:46
Facebook Caucasian folks who are you
17:50
know typing away at how tragic this is
17:52
and how much they wish that this this
17:54
type of violence would end in America it
17:56
could end in America the minute that we
17:58
stop believing that they stop believing
18:00
that just because you're in brown skin
18:01
you might hurt me or just because you're
18:04
in brown black skin you might be
18:06
somebody who is going to be a criminal
18:07
or somebody who has been engaged in
18:09
criminal activity when you stop thinking
18:11
about us as in other this type of
18:14
situation will end you don't have to be
18:15
the person who loads up your rifle and
18:17
gets in the car and chases somebody but
18:19
you are equally responsible when you're
18:21
that person who decides that just
18:23
because you saw someone who looked like
18:24
me running down the street that all of a
18:26
sudden I'm a bad character and somebody
18:28
who needs to be monitored yeah I mean
18:32
crazy boy hasn't thought yeah yeah I
18:34
definitely want to jump in robbed and I
18:36
think a lot of it it goes to what
18:38
everybody else is saying as far as the
18:41
history of America goes anyway you know
18:43
that slavery was not just put down by
18:46
just some small portion of the country
18:49
it was a large force against another
18:52
large force they're saying slavery is
18:53
wrong we fought a civil war over it we
18:56
had a civil rights movement that wasn't
18:58
just black people those people all
19:00
across the nation demanding rights for a
19:03
certain group of people so I don't think
19:04
the problem is necessarily a white black
19:07
issue I think sometimes it is an
19:09
American issue where people are not
19:12
stepping up and recognizing that there
19:15
is injustice in here and challenging
19:17
like everybody else is saying of other
19:19
Americans to step up and actually do
19:21
this so white people black people
19:23
Hispanics agents nobody gets a free pass
19:26
when there's injustice anywhere in your
19:29
community because you know what happens
19:31
next they come after you and when they
19:33
come after you there's no other person
19:35
who's gonna be there to support you so
19:37
these individuals to white man like go
19:41
into a pickup truck again with guns
19:43
drawn saying that they want to make a
19:46
citizen's arrest which there's some BS
19:48
within itself and then you have another
19:49
idiot who had a cell phone and
19:52
videotaping the whole thing who by the
19:54
way still has not been arrested yet and
19:56
you have no reports about where this
19:59
individual there
20:00
cuz best believe if this was black
20:02
people doing this they would have had
20:05
every resource out there trying to find
20:08
this third individual - yes it was if it
20:11
was ms-13 doing this same thing if it's
20:15
any other and in the way that has been
20:17
put here then the full resources of
20:20
every judicial or do law enforcement
20:22
body that's available will be devoted to
20:25
it here that same apparatus was was
20:28
dedicated to finding a way to excuse it
20:31
and I just want to be clear what I'm
20:33
saying is that when when these issues
20:35
are presented as there's a white side
20:38
and a black side that is wrong is what
20:41
I'm saying there it's not an issue of a
20:42
white side and a black side it's an
20:44
issue of a side of like like it was said
20:46
an American side Rob said this a side
20:48
that believes in law and order injustice
20:50
and then another side that believes in
20:52
savagery that believes should just roll
20:54
up on somebody on the street and shoot
20:55
up you know like that's those are the
20:57
two sides here and so depending on what
21:00
side you're on it should not you should
21:02
look at the skin color on your arm and
21:04
decide what side you on you should look
21:05
in your heart
21:06
you should look in your mind and figure
21:07
out what do you believe in and if you
21:09
believe in barbarism and if you believe
21:11
in rolling up on people and shooting
21:13
them in the street
21:14
then you can sign with these people but
21:16
if you most people don't most people
21:18
don't laugh like that and so let's not
21:20
make it an issue where we're making
21:21
people choose based on the things that
21:23
aren't even really yet play well I'll
21:25
just say this like and I think ideally I
21:28
agree with that point of view because
21:29
that is correct in its foundation I have
21:31
no disagreement with what you said in
21:33
its foundation but in its practice
21:35
there's some difference I have so I
21:36
would I would cite what dr. Martin
21:38
Luther King talked about a lot of people
21:40
don't lay they love to cite dr. Martin
21:42
Luther King's I have a dream speech they
21:44
rarely cite the one I'm about to talk
21:45
about when he talked about moderates he
21:47
was particularly talking about moderate
21:48
whites and what he was trying to get to
21:50
was the fact that we need folks who know
21:52
this stuff is wrong to be louder to
21:55
stand up harder in order for this to
21:57
stop like that's the point I'm trying to
21:59
make like yes I agree with you that it's
22:01
not a black or white issue at the end of
22:02
the day it's right and wrong and it's
22:04
simply that is truth simply on paper
22:06
absolutely right I'm saying why they
22:09
should stay up you're staying you're
22:10
saying that they should stand up I'm
22:11
saying why they should stand up and I'm
22:13
agreeing with why did you stand up
22:14
I'm also a muscle talking about what
22:17
what prevents this from moving forward
22:19
is the fact that enough people don't
22:21
want to stand up because they don't want
22:22
to be uncomfortable they don't want to
22:23
be in the room to say okay I know that
22:25
this person is saying some things that I
22:27
know are racist that I know are wrong
22:29
and I know I can stand back up but I
22:31
don't want to have to give up any of my
22:32
I don't want to be uncomfortable I don't
22:34
want to give up my I don't want to give
22:36
up my comfort I don't want to make this
22:37
person matter this person might have
22:38
power or this might this person might be
22:40
in my circle that's what I'm saying so
22:42
it's the same parent law I was talking
22:43
about when dealing with men and sexual
22:46
harassment and having to stand up to men
22:48
when they see something wrong it's the
22:50
same thing I'm saying here with how
22:52
racism and things play out in order for
22:53
us to have a long term effect so we
22:55
don't I'm hoping that we're not having
22:56
these same conversations in the same
22:58
level in the next 30 years that's what
23:00
that's really what I was trying to get
23:01
at if that makes sense to me so I think
23:03
tunde's you and you know you want to
23:05
jump in and say some stuff yeah talking
23:08
more about the system because I think
23:10
the guys that did this murder are who
23:14
they are unfortunately and and probably
23:17
society will always have people like
23:20
that and I think to James's point you
23:21
know that's the whole point of kind of
23:23
having a system of law and order and and
23:25
honoring that system which i think is
23:28
what a lot of us are said about that
23:30
without this cell phone video and all
23:32
that we de literally had these two
23:34
murderers just walking around like it's
23:35
all good to just kill some black dude
23:38
just because you felt like it that day I
23:39
mean honestly I thought about not only
23:41
that to day the fact is the video the
23:44
video has existed for a long time yeah
23:46
so the prosecutors have been sitting on
23:49
this evidence and system itself because
23:54
look to me I mean the the idea of a of
23:59
this guy then thinking that he was a
24:01
burglary suspect in the neighborhood
24:03
it's just as dishes to me right now as
24:05
the excuse that was given when days to
24:08
lynch black men and a hundred years ago
24:10
that he raped my wife yes exactly right
24:12
and we don't have to go that far back we
24:14
can talk about Florida since we're in
24:16
Florida I'll let you get back to us but
24:17
it's a good transition Trayvon Martin we
24:20
this is I see the parallels in this kid
24:22
we don't we don't have to go back 200
24:23
years and talk about that we can go back
24:25
to Trayvon Martin just a favor
24:26
what I'm getting at is that it's always
24:29
that excuse night really I know I want
24:31
to take a couple I think at the point
24:32
how to get to but this one is different
24:34
from the system aspect because what I
24:36
felt when I kind of started thinking
24:38
about this one is so these guys shot
24:40
this kid shot him three times with a
24:42
shotgun pretty much a point-blank range
24:44
so I mean I don't know what they were
24:46
using but if they want to use in
24:47
dear-dear
24:48
sorry they want to use in birdshot and
24:50
if they have deer slugs or buckshot I
24:53
mean that was a pretty gruesome scene so
24:55
that means a police officer at some
24:57
point rolled up on that scene and saw a
24:59
few people with guns and a pickup truck
25:02
and a dead guy in the street and I'm
25:04
thinking and and what in that moment
25:07
made that police officer allow this guy
25:09
to leave that's what I mean about the
25:12
system like and so with that point like
25:15
that goes to a point I open up to the to
25:17
the whole panel like our whole system is
25:19
the fact that you see the situation you
25:22
describe
25:22
same thing with Trayvon Martin yeah it's
25:25
um you had a literally a kid walking
25:27
down the street with skittles and was
25:28
seen as a threat and it was it was a it
25:31
was just it was acceptable in a lot of
25:33
people's minds that he was guilty
25:36
Trayvon Martin was guilty and that
25:39
George Zimmerman was doing some great
25:40
service similar to here they're acting
25:43
like people are doing some great service
25:44
protecting their neighborhood in fact
25:46
out I was going to put this Facebook
25:48
page up to share everybody I don't want
25:49
to share the Facebook page but there's a
25:51
Facebook page now with over a hundred
25:53
thousand members for these two suspected
25:55
murderers that's up people wanting to
25:58
support them and they described them as
26:01
god-fearing men who were trying to
26:03
protect their neighborhood and I think
26:05
you know you have a lot of people that
26:07
are supporting this and so my question
26:09
is well why are we like this and is
26:11
there is is there any way how do we move
26:14
this forward I mean I've had my thoughts
26:15
already on this the kind of but I'd like
26:17
to have you guys talk about this what
26:19
what are we to do when enough people
26:21
have this belief that no matter what the
26:24
evidence no matter what the tape no
26:26
matter what the age of the person
26:27
Trayvon Martin people want to just
26:29
assume the worst when it comes to black
26:31
and brown people even when it's clear
26:33
that they've been victimized I think it
26:35
goes back to you a part of what chris
26:37
said earlier we
26:39
a nation that has fed and been built off
26:42
of a system of white privilege a system
26:44
that has by and large since its creation
26:47
been there to disenfranchise black
26:50
people and been there to ensure that
26:52
black people stayed in their place and
26:53
to do so there was this methodology of
26:56
fear created especially around black men
26:58
associated with just their existence you
27:01
did not have to do anything and I'm the
27:03
creation of some random crime whether it
27:05
was massagin Asian whether it was raped
27:07
whether it was you taking the idea of
27:11
you taking a job from a white man
27:12
whether it is you just walking down the
27:14
street with skittles and and some sweet
27:18
tea at the end of the day if you have a
27:19
culture of people that believe that just
27:22
because of the color of your skin you
27:24
are likely to have committed a crime or
27:26
you are likely to be in the process of
27:28
committing one there you have those
27:30
issues and I think that that is a that
27:32
it's a sad reality it's also you know
27:34
the structure and the framework of
27:36
microaggressions across this country but
27:38
it has led to some pretty devastating
27:40
things and even across the criminal
27:41
justice system whether you're in the
27:43
north south or anywhere in between that
27:45
because you are black you are more than
27:47
likely guilty of saying you don't come
27:49
in innocent until proven guilty you come
27:52
in as if you're an African American you
27:54
did that whatever that is you did it and
27:56
I think that when were you gonna prove
27:59
yourself innocent it's also something we
28:01
have to consider or guilty unless you
28:03
can get a white person to vouch for you
28:05
right because the proof piece not but
28:08
I'll tell you this I think it's a
28:08
mistake to to conflate this with too
28:12
many things one of the things that's
28:15
very important that you cannot lose with
28:17
this when you make this case is that
28:20
these were private citizens these were
28:21
not like there can be arguments about we
28:24
want to give police officers the benefit
28:25
of the doubt and all this other stuff
28:26
which we can argue about that but there
28:29
is at least a there's something to be
28:33
said that yet police police office in
28:34
please being a law enforcement officer
28:37
is a difficult job you deal with a lot
28:39
of crazy stuff all the time these are
28:41
just two dudes no no he wasn't empowered
28:48
by the state to run up on his dude like
28:51
this off of his
28:52
that he was let me finish the point
28:55
though but but but yeah I don't know no
28:57
you you're going to a more deeper like
29:00
psychological right how this continues
29:02
to happen I'm saying in this case when
29:04
we talk about this this I think this is
29:06
similar to George Zimmerman and in this
29:08
type of thing where you got these guys
29:09
they just decide on their own that they
29:12
are going to start giving commands to
29:14
black dudes and if those black dudes
29:16
don't listen they're gonna sugar like
29:18
that you have catify that is okay I mean
29:23
that a prosecutor to the extent that a
29:26
prosecutor wants to use it for that
29:27
they're not using those state laws but
29:29
they're not using those state laws when
29:31
you have a black letter team practice so
29:35
yeah that that goes to bra boys makes
29:37
the point that your prosecutors more
29:38
important than your president and up
29:40
until maybe three years ago that there
29:42
were three or four years ago that was
29:43
probably true but ultimately like that
29:47
so you're getting into discretion there
29:49
but I'm saying like what makes these
29:50
guys look what makes this class of
29:52
people this or this group of people I'm
29:54
not even saying a class but this group
29:55
of people this is no different than a
29:57
lynching like when hey this is somebody
30:00
pointed the finger at this person is
30:01
doing something so we're just gonna go
30:03
round up the guys and go confront this
30:05
guy and if he doesn't do what we say
30:06
we're gonna kill him like that is yeah
30:08
Chris I mean I don't you have you you
30:10
can speak to some particular laws that
30:13
are how they're again I set this off
30:15
into there there's a difference between
30:17
how things are done and on paper versus
30:21
in practice in America on paper you know
30:24
these laws these laws are supposed to be
30:27
for the protection of people in practice
30:29
they seem to be they seem to empower
30:32
lynchings in some ways it seemed to or
30:34
at least make them easier am I wrong on
30:37
that just talk about the particular
30:38
nuances of Georgia law it so and to give
30:43
this a little bit more context February
30:45
23rd was three days shy when Trayvon
30:48
Martin was shot and murdered in 2012 so
30:52
we're talking about eight years of a
30:55
span that happened in between there the
30:57
reason why that sticks out in my mind so
30:59
much is because I was in my third year
31:01
in law school and I was interning with
31:04
CRS which is a
31:06
Community Relations service for the
31:07
federal government that actually looks
31:09
into hate crimes that happen in certain
31:12
jurisdictions and I went to Sanford
31:14
Florida when they were rallying and
31:16
demanding justice for Trayvon Martin at
31:18
the time so in my mind and I think this
31:21
is something that black men really need
31:23
to talk about more I was doing some sort
31:27
of advocacy work eight years ago and I'm
31:29
still doing the same damn thing eight
31:31
years later and yet there's been no
31:34
change and it really hit me the other
31:36
day of my god why why is this still
31:39
going on because as much as you have a
31:41
president talking about an invisible
31:44
enemy in covet 19 that's been affecting
31:47
and killing people America has always
31:49
had an invisible enemy with white
31:51
supremacy and yet you have never found
31:55
the American government or the American
31:57
people trying to find a vaccine or cure
32:00
a what has been the original sin of this
32:04
country and is constantly infected us
32:06
and what the result you've always find
32:09
is people getting lynched on the streets
32:11
black men and black women getting
32:14
lynched so what happened with this
32:16
District Attorney let me tell you it's
32:18
the second District Attorney in Waycross
32:20
district district attorney George barn
32:23
hill he issued an opinion of saying that
32:26
these people were correct with pursuing
32:28
this individual under Georgia citizens
32:31
arrest laws they can't come out of a
32:34
pickup truck with guns ablaze because of
32:37
Georgia's open carry law and due to
32:40
Georgia's use of force law which is the
32:42
worst in the nation and they're claiming
32:44
that he tried to grab their gun they
32:45
were justified in shooting them but
32:47
great district attorneys play a pivotal
32:49
role within that as far as who gets
32:52
locked up and why and prosecuted but
32:55
it's also the laws that need to be
32:56
changed automatically without any type
32:59
of differential treatment and that that
33:03
type of problems that are happening in
33:05
Glenn County Georgia have been happening
33:07
all across the nation that you pointed
33:09
out before yeah I mean I think you make
33:11
a lot of great points there and you look
33:13
at how this played out you had you had
33:15
the system justify a lynching that's how
33:17
I look at it until until there was
33:20
public outcry when folks saw the tape
33:21
and you know but it's it's it's it's it
33:25
is sad Chris when I think about Trayvon
33:28
Martin and you said that we haven't made
33:30
any changes I would say in some ways I
33:32
feel like we're going we've gone almost
33:34
backwards since then and because I can
33:38
just say I feel like this environment is
33:40
more empowering for hate then it's ever
33:43
been in America since I've been alive
33:45
like generally it was like okay we knew
33:47
this stuff existed but then there was it
33:50
wasn't like accepted like okay let's not
33:53
okay let's not let's not do this let's
33:54
just say this is not acceptable
33:56
I'll give you case in point Trent Lott
33:59
when when george w bush won his second
34:02
term said something that would be minor
34:04
now he basically said he was talking
34:06
about Strom Thurmond and that he was
34:07
just being he was a good old boy he was
34:09
good that got that one statement that's
34:12
all he said got him kicked out of the
34:14
majority position in the party at that
34:16
time that one statement now now people
34:19
can literally say like we have we know
34:20
we have white supremacist in the White
34:23
House and they're accepted and it's and
34:26
everybody just kind of just says okay
34:27
though so my question is this how in the
34:30
world do we get to a point where
34:33
something like this becomes now partisan
34:35
politics now when you talk about
34:36
lynching the black man we get to a point
34:39
where we're talking about Democrat
34:40
versus Republican like how in the world
34:42
did we get here and how do we get out of
34:44
that because I'm perplexed at that this
34:49
is a new new and even the Trent Lott
34:50
situation again Mississippian he was yes
34:53
kicked out of the majority but he was
34:55
still in Congress for a very long time
34:57
after that and Mississippi has never had
34:59
any more who has risen to the level of
35:01
any type of federal position because it
35:03
continues to be blocked
35:04
they had a advanced method of making
35:06
sure people don't have access to the
35:08
ballot um but I think that you give
35:11
President Trump way too much credit on
35:13
the one hand yes he is someone who has
35:15
been able to use the bully pulpit who
35:17
spread racism out loud but he and he has
35:20
done it a tactic in a way that we have
35:22
not seen before just because of the
35:24
advancement of social media but
35:26
throughout this country racists have
35:27
always been there they've always been
35:28
loud and proud right now we aren't
35:31
seeing
35:31
you know crazy uptick in the amount of
35:34
you know extreme violence when it comes
35:36
to racialized violence we've always had
35:38
those as well some states report others
35:40
do not I think that what we're seeing
35:42
though is a social media group and a
35:44
vocal group of younger people who are a
35:46
lot more you know advocacy oriented who
35:48
are consistently beating the drum now
35:50
about these cases got it don't get the
35:53
media attention so your thought is the
35:55
reason why is not that this is happening
35:57
more people are more empowered it's that
36:00
the opposing side is louder and bringing
36:03
more attention to it because of social
36:05
media and the clearance and the current
36:07
climate is that is that your thought
36:09
absolutely the social media today is
36:11
what TV was for young people in the 60s
36:14
period I don't think that there has been
36:16
any more any less in terms of you know
36:19
that the violence against black people
36:20
the amount of disrespect the amount of
36:23
and the urgency of us doing something
36:24
about it than we've seen in the past
36:26
right now we have a president who by all
36:28
argument is someone who again looks
36:31
apparently either loves to see it or
36:32
does not want to call out anybody who
36:34
does who commits these violent acts or
36:37
who commits these racialized attacks
36:38
because he and right has said words that
36:40
would you know push somebody to you
36:42
exactly okay but up but up but I'll push
36:44
back a little bout what you said look
36:46
with with Trent Lott and I'm not
36:47
defending george w bush as a president
36:49
but what what i'm saying is there was a
36:51
state in the republican party that you
36:53
know maybe they would tolerate some but
36:54
there was a line and it was a clear line
36:56
when when things were done and they
36:59
never wanted to be they never they never
37:01
wanted to be seen as outward overly
37:04
racist or just like and totally embrace
37:06
it and i and i don't feel like that line
37:08
is there anymore so there used to be
37:10
something called a dog whistle now it's
37:12
a bullhorn like it's not even trying to
37:14
be slick about it it's not even trying
37:16
to be like oh yeah hi we're really
37:18
making fun of black people but we're not
37:19
really saying it that way now it's just
37:21
like hi these guys we need to to keep
37:24
them down we need to keep them from
37:26
voting like they say the quiet parts out
37:28
loud and yeah i think that there has
37:31
been a backlash you know over the past
37:32
decade or whatever where people have
37:35
been like i think the current president
37:36
really just jumped in front of a parade
37:38
that was already happened it's not like
37:40
that he just you know started running
37:42
for hour trying to run for office like
37:43
he'd been saying the same stuff for 30
37:45
years
37:45
it just got traction now because there's
37:47
more people who are willing to go to
37:50
that extreme or to to take and we have a
37:52
pup called Barack Obama that disturbed a
37:55
lot of people's it you know well
37:56
certainly so I think that we are now
37:58
whether if you want to say what whether
38:01
things are happening more or whether we
38:02
know about it more like I hear you on
38:04
that I don't think it's impossible to
38:06
know because things aren't consistently
38:08
and accurately reported all the time
38:09
like even here we would publish NO
38:11
Republic would know nothing about this
38:13
until in until the videos released and
38:16
whoever knows whatever else has happened
38:18
over the last three months or six months
38:19
or three years or however long that we
38:22
just never find out about but there has
38:24
been in terms of what is acceptable
38:27
discourse in the public square there has
38:30
been a change some of that social
38:32
media-driven something that's media
38:33
regular media driven but there has been
38:36
a change and I think that's to your
38:38
point Rob like the things people will
38:39
say to you the disrespect people level
38:42
to you in the halls of Congress is
38:44
greater now than they was thirty years
38:47
ago maybe not as much as it was you know
38:48
200 years ago but you know it's still
38:51
it's something I mean you look at the
38:53
current climate let's let's let's bring
38:55
in Kobe 19 craziness into this for a
38:57
minute and you think about all these I
39:00
think fools which are similar to the
39:03
type of folks that might be empowered to
39:05
do something like this that are going
39:06
out and fighting for their right to I
39:09
don't know go die from the Cova 19 virus
39:11
I don't know but they're going out there
39:12
putting putting rifles up in hand and
39:15
and intimidating lawmakers I mean you
39:18
had there literally going to Michigan
39:20
screaming in people's face carrying guns
39:22
and rifles I do think the climate is I
39:25
haven't seen a climate like this you
39:27
know I've been around that long but I
39:29
haven't seen the climate this open to it
39:31
like yeah Rob can I tell you something
39:33
man actually my wife shared just with
39:35
our dish thought with me this morning
39:37
and like she's like look there are
39:39
people in the street because they don't
39:42
want to do what the government is saying
39:44
to do in order to for from public health
39:47
reasons and then there are people who as
39:51
private citizens will shoot you in the
39:53
street if you don't do what you tell
39:54
they tell you to do you know I and it's
39:56
like well hold on now Howard
39:58
the same or not the same but how the
40:00
hell is there overlap in somebody saying
40:01
hey I know the governor says this or you
40:03
know the legal apparatus the elected
40:06
leadership that we have is saying we're
40:09
a mass and they're saying I'll shoot you
40:10
if you and somebody could get shot over
40:12
this but I'll shoot you if you make me
40:14
wear a mask and then the same thing just
40:16
some dude on the street some guy on the
40:18
street will shoot you if you don't obey
40:19
them like obey their commands like who
40:23
are these people that think that just
40:25
they tell you to do something you got to
40:26
do it like just just cause like I don't
40:29
get it but they won't listen to the
40:31
elected leadership for wearing a mask
40:34
can I jump in here because I think it
40:36
has to do with a little bit of going
40:38
back to Chris's point about the virus
40:41
that America's had for its whole history
40:44
of this type of racism and it's painful
40:49
for me to say this and realize it but
40:51
Jimmy the reason is is because they
40:53
don't look at us as equal humans I mean
40:55
at the end of the day they're there
40:56
there is a group of people in this
40:58
country not all of them but a group of
41:01
people and enough that that they make
41:03
enough noise let's just put it that way
41:05
that I really I was like Rob said I was
41:08
I was naive on this too prior to the
41:11
last decade I thought a lot of this kind
41:13
of what we grew up seeing as the old
41:15
clan and lynchings and all that was like
41:17
okay that's history and maybe there's
41:19
five to ten percent of people out there
41:21
that might still think that's okay and
41:24
unfortunately I think that the
41:26
percentage is higher than that and they
41:28
really don't like they like to say about
41:32
America's equal and where there's great
41:33
democracy and we strive for equality but
41:36
I really don't think that deep deep deep
41:38
inside like they they think a few of us
41:41
can get here and there and it's okay
41:43
that Michael Jordan trip on a ball and
41:45
it's okay to have Denzel acted on TV
41:47
but to your point Rob one one one of us
41:51
got to the white house and forget about
41:52
politics you can dislike a Democrat
41:55
liberal all day and not be racists only
41:57
make that clear but I think there were
42:00
some people that have some emotional
42:01
disturbances and realized wow if this
42:04
country's change in the way I'm
42:05
comfortable and I think because back to
42:08
Chris's point about Trayvon Martin 2012
42:11
eight years later we're here what's
42:14
happening between them I mean I don't
42:17
know how many it's been has probably
42:18
been a couple you know at least a dozen
42:20
if not more videos I've seen of unarmed
42:23
black men killed by police officers and
42:25
every time it was the same fault lines
42:27
that fell under certain people said it
42:29
was uh you know he must have done
42:31
something wrong people saying where's
42:33
this due process and you know why is it
42:35
why is it always this one group getting
42:37
killed and they're unarmed and then
42:40
going back to the system right every
42:42
single one of those cases the police
42:44
officers lied on this police report you
42:47
know the video shows that he wasn't you
42:49
know he if he wouldn't have feared for
42:50
his life he wasn't being attacked all
42:52
this stuff and again so it's bigger than
42:54
just the incident of the killing
42:57
it's his system that helps prop it up
42:59
because and that's what my a Mike Lee is
43:01
too the good cops where you guys had to
43:05
to stop this because this doesn't make
43:07
police officers live any easier and
43:09
better to eat it right I believe most
43:11
cops are good cops or we'd all be dead
43:13
right now right but to James point you
43:15
know I I don't disagree with your
43:16
assessment but this is this case is even
43:18
worse because they're not acting as
43:20
officers they're acting as private
43:21
citizens
43:24
I don't want to say that because I think
43:27
it's gonna be I'm just talking about
43:31
there's enough people in this country
43:32
that between the trayvon martin and this
43:35
thing have watched unarmed black people
43:37
getting angry by police and they're
43:39
saying wow I must have been their fault
43:41
somehow but it always goes out why does
43:44
it always go to the assassination of the
43:46
character of the of the victim no matter
43:49
how clear the evidence is you look at
43:51
this case we have a tape that to me is
43:53
pretty undeniable I mean obviously
43:54
everyone's entitled to a trial but
43:56
there's there there's no justification
43:58
for the per for the for these
44:00
perpetrators not to have been arrested
44:01
and you know they you see this as clear
44:04
evidence to me that that actually
44:06
Ahmad's rights were violated and then he
44:10
was shot for just trying to to not stand
44:13
up to somebody was trying to question
44:14
him for jogging and he ended up losing
44:16
his life because of that
44:17
and they're trying to assassinate his
44:19
character
44:19
going back to a conviction he had I
44:20
guess in high school or something I mean
44:24
that's not new we knew the minute that
44:27
this video came out the minute that
44:28
there was a dead black man laying on the
44:30
ground that in short order there was
44:32
going to be all types of research into
44:34
his background find some type of
44:35
criminality did he wind up smoking weed
44:38
when he was 15 because somehow that
44:40
could have led to the reason why he got
44:41
shot at 25 24 18 process but is
44:45
something that we see go across multiple
44:48
cases don't don't mistake it though the
44:50
purpose of that is to allow the people
44:52
who don't want to give this person the
44:55
benefit of the doubt or who do want to
44:57
look at this as justified it's to give
44:59
them a reason to do so they're not
45:01
looking to convince anybody by doing
45:02
that what they're doing is saying the
45:04
people who are already susceptible to
45:05
the message of let's blame this victim
45:07
they want to give them something and so
45:09
and this is I think the persuasion piece
45:12
of this is important this is why I say
45:13
you shouldn't conflate this with when
45:15
police officers do it because you're
45:17
giving this guy cover like this isn't
45:19
new black lives matter comes up and then
45:21
there's blue lives matter well there's
45:23
no blue lives matter here like this with
45:27
you there but to the extent that he was
45:29
a former one retired from this and had a
45:32
long list of relationships within the
45:34
county we helped him get away with him
45:37
but see the thing is is to us to to to a
45:41
black person to a black male it all
45:43
feels the same and so in our minds in
45:46
our hearts if he it just feels like
45:48
another one of those but I'm saying that
45:50
if you want to corner this the people
45:53
who are arguing against or in favor of
45:56
these murderers
45:57
by you you give them cover I mean maybe
45:59
I'm talking like a lawyer you know but
46:00
you give them cover by bringing all this
46:03
other stuff in like you keep this narrow
46:05
this is - this is you know two guys two
46:07
guys on the street as Rob said two thugs
46:09
run up on somebody and shoot them
46:12
because I was gonna say which is really
46:17
where I believe what Tunde was saying
46:20
and everybody else who Rob I'm saying
46:22
you have a segment of this country that
46:24
does not look at black people as people
46:26
so they're the ones who will hunt down a
46:30
black man and kill them without blinking
46:32
in a
46:33
and there are several others who will
46:35
buy into that messaging but the bigger
46:37
scarier part is that you have a group of
46:40
white people or other people who just
46:42
don't care which is something we've said
46:44
and we're talking about a case that has
46:48
a video we're not talking about the
46:51
other cases that don't have videos or
46:53
the other cases that haven't come to
46:54
light because again this happened on
46:56
February 23rd and now the public's
46:59
talking about it in May that's a problem
47:02
because there are several other cases
47:04
out there that are trying to be scooped
47:06
on a little rug where if there wasn't
47:08
somebody at the door trying to uplift
47:09
this and that's what I heard from the
47:11
people of Brunswick yesterday when they
47:14
had their rally they're tired they are
47:17
tired of being harassed by the police
47:19
they're tired of having a district
47:21
attorney that's incompetent and they are
47:23
tired of dealing with these racism in
47:26
their communities and if we just ignore
47:29
that or if they don't have an outlet to
47:31
go to because a lot of them were saying
47:32
hey we just don't know the law we just
47:35
don't know this and we don't know that
47:36
and that's the problem that we're really
47:38
dealing with is to where did these
47:40
people get resources after the cameras
47:42
are gone after the media is no longer
47:45
covering this story and they're going on
47:46
to something else
47:47
who's really gonna be there I'm going
47:49
down there this Tuesday when there are
47:52
no cameras to meet with community
47:53
leaders and say hey this is what we can
47:56
do and once you start digging and pry
47:58
into things that you uncover other
48:00
things such as there have been voting
48:02
irregularities within this county
48:04
there's been other police misconduct
48:06
like once you start peeling away racism
48:09
is just one symptom I'm gonna overall
48:11
corrupt society because these people do
48:15
not live civilized lives because they
48:17
don't respect other people in the rule
48:19
of law yeah I mean I think that we're
48:22
very well stated and really getting to
48:24
the point of what you made about
48:27
indifference is the biggest problem and
48:29
so we when we when we talked about this
48:31
earlier folks needing to challenge other
48:34
folks in their circle truth is America
48:36
is still very segregated and and a lot
48:39
of white people only live amongst white
48:40
people and other peers and you're gonna
48:43
hear language that you that should make
48:45
you think okay this is
48:47
not right and you want to see things
48:49
that you know aren't right and it's not
48:51
that you would do that that's not what
48:53
we're saying but the point is that if
48:55
you're indifferent to it happening it's
48:56
going to continue to happen because
48:58
indifferent I mean I mean dr. Martin
49:00
King said this very idea that's the
49:01
white moderate point from that that's
49:03
the point the inference is the problem
49:05
like it's not that we're not saying
49:07
you're out there committing the murders
49:08
of but the problem is if you're cool
49:10
with it it's gonna continue to go on and
49:13
so you have some responsibility to end
49:14
it that's really the only point that I
49:16
was trying to make earlier indifference
49:19
is killing it it's literally costing
49:21
lives and it is it is letting injustice
49:24
move forward if people say you care
49:25
about these principles that you espouse
49:27
every second in order to make sure
49:29
they're actually fulfilled people are
49:30
gonna have to stand up and fight for
49:32
them and that means fighting within
49:33
their circles because we you know we
49:35
can't be everywhere this show might be
49:36
able to be everywhere but we can't be at
49:38
your local community at your local
49:40
Country Club when when things happen
49:42
when conversations happen you got to
49:44
push back when people hear this look and
49:46
people are gonna as James said earlier
49:48
they're gonna try to use shortcuts to
49:51
make it justify you know this person was
49:53
smoking weed he had a charge this this
49:56
person thought people were breaking in
49:57
the neighborhood look at it this way
50:00
this person was a human being whose life
50:01
was taken he had a family and he did
50:04
nothing more than job down his
50:05
neighborhood period point-blank in the
50:07
paragraph in a sentence and would you
50:09
want that to happen to you and are you
50:12
live in a country that that's the case
50:14
like that that's why I was saying as far
50:16
as the two sides of this you can't miss
50:18
them
50:18
like get confused about the side to the
50:21
sides here our rule of law and equality
50:23
versus barbarism you know and just like
50:27
you can go with white supremacy or
50:29
whatever like this is the same battle
50:31
that was fought at the Civil War and
50:33
that has been fought since then there
50:35
are there is a a set of Americans that
50:38
believe that equality should be for all
50:40
and that everyone should have equal
50:43
protection under the law and so forth
50:45
and there are other Americans who
50:47
believe that those things should only
50:48
apply to white people like and that's
50:50
literally the battle over the Civil War
50:52
and that has continued to this day and
50:54
so when you're when you were saying you
50:56
need to to to stand up for something
50:59
it's not saying you need
51:00
to stand up for black people per se it's
51:02
that these in justices are happening to
51:05
me I stand up for justice yeah you need
51:07
to sale for justice and that was video I
51:09
know dr. King always talked about that
51:10
like what he was doing was it saying
51:13
okay like black people need special
51:15
treatment
51:16
we're just saying if do we believe in
51:17
equality if you're on the team that
51:18
believes in equality then you should be
51:20
against this if you're on the team that
51:21
believes in and a white should have
51:24
special rights over over blacks then
51:26
then you you would generally support the
51:28
other that the guys who just murdered
51:29
this person right and those are the two
51:31
sides though it's not black people
51:33
versus white people and so I want to
51:35
talk about the laws Chris particularly
51:37
on the ground in Georgia
51:38
and similar States I'm sure we have long
51:40
we have a lot of laws like this in Ohio
51:42
too because Ohio frankly as far as you
51:45
can go in the north still be parts of
51:47
the south but I'll say that just a true
51:50
statement there are some particular laws
51:53
you look at you know stand your ground
51:55
and some other laws that that empower
51:59
this type of lawlessness and I know the
52:01
ACLU has been challenging that can you
52:03
talk about the particular challenges
52:05
with in this case that will will also
52:07
you know it's good that there was an
52:08
arrest but there's a difference between
52:09
an arrest and a conviction and we're far
52:11
away from a conviction absolutely
52:13
absolutely and I think that's what
52:15
people are saying well they're
52:17
celebrating an arrest looks like this is
52:20
not I'm not gonna celebrate every time I
52:22
TV turns on on the air-conditioning
52:24
comes on or anything I'm expecting this
52:26
to happen right the justice system that
52:30
we have set up was supposed to have an
52:33
arrest on February 23rd not 74 days
52:37
later so that's not a celebration that's
52:39
more of a deplorable act of saying what
52:42
happened
52:43
what's the prom and going into the loss
52:46
that were happening again you had this
52:49
go this is in this third District
52:51
Attorney's hands and I want to focus on
52:54
that second District Attorney who
52:56
literally wrote a letter of saying I'm
52:58
recusing myself but oh by the way this
53:01
is why you should not in arrest this
53:03
individual and we have several laws on
53:06
the books that the ACLU of Georgia is
53:08
looking at I'm working with other groups
53:10
of agreeing on things because this is
53:13
what you're going to have here
53:14
in the next couple of days because our
53:17
legislative session happens in June 11
53:20
Georgia unfortunately shares a
53:23
commonality with a few other states of
53:25
not having a hate crimes law there 46
53:28
states in the Union that has a hate
53:29
crimes law George is one of them that
53:31
does not that basically means that hate
53:33
crimes are still committed in Georgia
53:35
they're just never reported because we
53:37
don't have a law that says that they
53:39
reported this could be classified under
53:42
there so you have several legislators
53:45
who say I want to pass through a hate
53:47
crimes law I always talk to legislators
53:50
on several fronts especially dealing
53:52
with the hate crimes law but I'm
53:54
challenging them of saying if there was
53:57
a hate crimes law on the books would
53:58
this have stopped the murder of an
54:00
innocent black man or even further
54:02
witness have stopped the police officers
54:05
from not arresting these individuals and
54:07
again going back to that second District
54:10
Attorney his letter lays out why I said
54:14
it was okay for these people not to be
54:17
arrested that's in statute that is his
54:19
interpretation of law so that's why
54:21
Georgian citizens arrest lost because
54:24
they said that they thought this kid was
54:26
burglarizing that's why he was able to
54:29
actually pursue this individual because
54:31
of Georgia's open carry laws even though
54:33
I may consider it in a soul on me and my
54:37
well being
54:37
if you jump out of a car yelling at me
54:39
and you have a gun pointing at me that's
54:42
assault to me but under Georgia law
54:44
since you have an open carry law that
54:46
needs to be addressed to and again use
54:48
of force it doesn't matter how who gets
54:51
the upper hand or anything if you can
54:53
justify using force against this
54:55
individual or saying that you were a
54:57
threat that needs to be changed as well
54:59
so there are several things that are
55:02
gonna come into this and I think this is
55:05
bringing to light a lot of the issues
55:07
that are happening in Georgia and
55:08
probably across the nation what people
55:10
really need to realize though you can't
55:12
go for the easy win you can't go for
55:14
your own win for your own agenda let's
55:16
fix it and fix it with the hard problems
55:18
that need to be stated and that's
55:20
Georgia's use of force law I mean that
55:23
was I thought I had something that I'm
55:25
really going on I think I think what you
55:27
saying is a hundred percent correct and
55:28
the pressure needs to come on the
55:30
legislature to fix the laws but see
55:33
these laws though it the decision on
55:36
whether there's probable cause for an
55:37
arrest is different than whether there's
55:40
a defense to the crime and so in this
55:42
case those things sound more like and
55:45
this may get to hyper-technical from a
55:46
legal standpoint and I apologize if it
55:48
does but those things sound like things
55:49
that should be raised as defenses by
55:52
these guys at trial or whatever else
55:54
those don't sound like it and in fact
55:57
the police officers had determined on
55:59
the scene oh the ones who did the actual
56:01
police officers that they were going to
56:02
make an arrest and the first district
56:04
attorney stopped them from doing that
56:05
and so the question of whether they had
56:07
to flee GLE defenses that can operate to
56:10
get them not guilty verdict later on is
56:13
different than deciding that these guys
56:15
don't we don't even need that these guys
56:17
don't even need to stay in trial
56:18
like somebody some random dude shows up
56:21
shoot somebody and don't even need to
56:24
stand trial
56:25
I have a very easy explanation for that
56:28
and it's because you have these laws
56:29
that they say are supposed to be neutral
56:31
on paper but in practice and in
56:34
principle they don't apply to black and
56:37
brown people and they empower everyone
56:39
else to be able to come after us so you
56:42
have folks that that I think there are
56:44
people that know these laws and know
56:46
that I have a gun I got my right to have
56:49
a gun they know what it's like to have
56:51
self-defense I'm agreeing with what you
56:53
say but I'm saying these laws though
56:57
they they they create a culture of being
57:00
able to feel empowered to do stuff like
57:02
this that leads to results like this
57:04
which is why it's so important for us to
57:07
to go after these laws and change them
57:09
because they we see how they play out in
57:11
practice I'll give you one quick example
57:13
real time Shannon Brown I'm sure there's
57:15
a lot in history we can go through I
57:16
know I know a Mesa has some points to
57:18
bring up but Shannon Brown a former NBA
57:20
player that lives in Georgia was
57:22
arrested for firing shots not not
57:25
killing anybody but firing shots for
57:27
some people that actually entered into
57:29
his house that weren't supposed to be in
57:31
his house according to his explanation
57:32
but he got arrested quickly like there
57:35
was no delay to your point James so it
57:38
works at my point I didn't I didn't
57:39
finish it the point I'm making is that
57:41
the
57:41
prosecutors in that part of the
57:43
apparatus is equally if not more guilty
57:46
here
57:46
the laws are a problem the laws are a
57:48
problem we need to put pressure that
57:50
that's that's statewide you know
57:51
assembly type stuff we need to put
57:52
pressure there but the prosecutors that
57:54
are making the judgment calls so to
57:56
speak to not use those law or to use
57:59
those laws in a way where people don't
58:00
even have to stand scrutiny they don't
58:02
even have to face a jury of their peers
58:04
like they're there deciding the case
58:06
then and they're overruling the police
58:10
officers in this case that it those
58:12
people need to be held accountable
58:14
like I said either as much or even more
58:17
well I in Georgia Alabama Louisiana
58:25
cases where there are women within
58:28
inches of their life who have shot
58:30
warning shots and those women ended up
58:32
getting killed and going to prison like
58:34
it is not a sense of oh my gosh why it's
58:36
calling I'm going to report this because
58:38
I was also someone who was victimized
58:39
and this was in self-defense
58:41
and it working for anybody and everybody
58:42
who calls himself defense because it
58:44
does not it seemingly works for white
58:47
men who attacked African Americans who
58:50
don't have weapons who don't have any
58:52
other way of defending themselves to be
58:53
honest but it does not work when you are
58:56
someone who is a victim of domestic
58:58
violence and all signs point to the fact
59:00
that you are getting your tail handed to
59:02
you and they still arrest you on the
59:03
spot yeah everybody there whatsoever
59:06
again these are cases where there are
59:08
women who didn't actually murder their
59:10
their aggressors at all they shot
59:12
warning shots and they still got locked
59:13
up on the spot no questions asked
59:16
with all the physical bruises bleeding
59:18
and everything else to show for it so I
59:19
think that obviously there's a problem
59:20
with the law in and of itself but
59:22
there's also a problem associated with
59:23
who it applies to and who it doesn't yep
59:26
I mean couldn't agree more and so as we
59:29
talk about issues and how to solve this
59:31
I want to just bring it back to what
59:33
James talked about earlier with this
59:34
prosecutor as well as Chris prosecutors
59:37
and everybody understand this have a
59:39
tremendous amount of power so yes they
59:42
are I think he has caught the the
59:44
prosecutor in this case is certainly
59:45
culpable but he's not gonna have any
59:48
accountability and I'll just tell you
59:49
very quickly why because we have a
59:50
system that doesn't allow him to have
59:52
accountability we've had when people
59:54
talk about
59:55
is not mattering I want I want to just
59:57
point to this one very very important
59:58
fact Supreme Court law does a lot to
60:01
enforce what the law looks like in
60:03
practice
60:04
I say Supreme Court law is when a law
60:05
when a case gets decided by the Supreme
60:08
Court as everyone knows here they're the
60:10
final say and so the Supreme Court has
60:12
decided over the last 30 or 40 years
60:14
that essentially the fourth the Fourth
60:16
Amendment doesn't exist when it comes to
60:17
black or brown communities that's gone
60:18
it's gone it doesn't apply you have no
60:21
rights there and they've also decided
60:23
that prosecutors because they've been
60:25
cases have actually had pretty much they
60:28
have the right to have discretion
60:29
without question like we've had these
60:31
things go to the Supreme Court and they
60:34
are closed cases that's what I want
60:37
people to know they're closed though
60:38
when I hear people say that my vote
60:39
doesn't matter it doesn't matter who's
60:41
the who you choose in Supreme Court it
60:42
does matter
60:43
you can ask people for the last 30 years
60:45
who've been put away with all these
60:47
horrible practices of so-called war on
60:50
drugs and ends up being a war on black
60:52
and brown communities that happened
60:54
because the Supreme Court picks and the
60:55
choices that that were set into place so
60:58
there are things that can be done you
60:59
can and you make sure you know your
61:01
prosecutor is and as Chris said you know
61:03
there are laws on the ground that we
61:04
need to work raise awareness and work
61:07
every day to change I mean I guess we
61:10
have we have two things we can do we can
61:11
give up or we continue to fight and
61:13
fighting doesn't just exist on online
61:15
protests I'm all for it I'm glad that's
61:17
happened in this case but as Chris said
61:19
look the hard work stops starts when
61:22
everybody stops paying attention the
61:24
hard work stops on a local area when
61:26
you're willing to still get up hold your
61:28
local officials accountable we want to
61:30
get up and vote that's what's gonna take
61:33
because they could look I think they I
61:35
say they'll talk about the system as a
61:36
whole have gotten used to us being loud
61:39
and protesting and getting in Rage for
61:41
an instant and then going away after you
61:44
know after it's over and just going back
61:46
on Twitter and doing what we were doing
61:47
or going back on Facebook we have to we
61:50
have to we have to we have to keep
61:53
consistently engaged and enraged in this
61:55
way because that's the only way we're
61:56
going to be able to change this I mean
61:58
that's my final thoughts I'd like to
61:59
have you guys have some final thoughts
62:00
on this and we can get ready to wrap up
62:01
any other thoughts I'll probably say
62:03
they've also guide you
62:04
to us not taking action at the state
62:06
level when it comes to getting these
62:07
laws changed it's one thing to be
62:09
enraged about a violent incident and I
62:11
think that everyone across the country
62:13
can share in that level of that level of
62:15
upset but it's another to push back
62:17
until state assemblies that this law
62:19
needs to change to tell to tell the
62:21
governor of Georgia hey we need to work
62:23
on moving this because at the end of the
62:25
day whether or not this whether or not
62:27
those two ended up going to prison what
62:29
we do know is that those laws will still
62:31
be on the books unless something changes
62:33
so what happens in three four five years
62:35
are even sooner when some other higher
62:37
than god mighty a white man decides he
62:40
wants to go after a black male for
62:41
running or a black male for you know
62:43
visiting a community that doesn't look
62:46
like him and these laws protect them as
62:48
well so I think that something else that
62:50
needs to be discussed needs to be you
62:52
know taking consideration in every state
62:54
level when something like this happens
62:55
is the laws that are in place on the
62:58
state books they empower people to make
63:00
these types of decisions yeah today yeah
63:03
I think just to me it's the system let's
63:07
not get caught up on these savages as
63:09
didn't put it obviously there it's a
63:11
horrible but but the system that allowed
63:13
them to get away with murder
63:15
I think we need to stay on that you got
63:18
a great point Rob that elections matter
63:20
and I think that you know back to
63:23
Jimmy's point let's not get caught up
63:24
into this is litem versus black and all
63:27
that stuff we're Americans we believe in
63:30
the rule of law and in a society where
63:32
we don't have antisocial people like
63:34
this that just feel they can gun people
63:35
down you know to me the racism is one
63:38
thing and obviously these guys were
63:40
[ __ ] but we have a system that's
63:42
allowing this to perpetuate and I think
63:44
that's the thing we need to stay focused
63:45
on yeah James how the voting piece man
63:50
like you know it this is where it
63:52
matters and it's not if you're just
63:54
voting in presidential elections then
63:56
that's part of the problem like all of
63:58
these mechanisms that are set up too
64:00
like all of these system mechanisms can
64:03
be turned against you but can also be
64:06
implemented in a way to bring a more
64:08
just society but you have to show up
64:11
like you said prosecutors have
64:12
discretion well they have a lot of
64:13
discretion law that when they're once
64:14
they're in office but often times I got
64:17
a run
64:18
and they gotta get elected and we've
64:18
seen certain cities around the country I
64:20
think Philly certains like ameesha and
64:23
and and you know like I you were no
64:24
better than me but there have been
64:25
places that have elected prosecutors
64:27
that come in not trying to just oppress
64:30
you know and they're trying to find
64:31
justice in the last few years and we try
64:35
to do it to them oh yeah they're gonna
64:36
get it yeah well but even what even
64:40
still though if the people support them
64:42
I mean you got and you got a vote you
64:43
got a vote because that's how this stuff
64:45
happens the the whole system is set up
64:47
that's why so much effort goes in to
64:50
keep people from voting because all of
64:52
the things that are being done against
64:53
you will fall apart if we get fair
64:57
representation if we get people who
64:58
believe in equality and office if we get
65:01
people who want justice in office all of
65:03
this stuff can be dismantled or can be
65:06
turned for those purposes so yeah it
65:08
says you got to participate I mean Robby
65:10
you and I always often talk you know you
65:11
get the democracy you get the government
65:14
that you deserve you know the people who
65:16
are trying to oppress are working hard
65:19
you know like they are showing up and
65:20
they are working hard and if we don't
65:22
outwork them we outnumber them but we
65:24
got our work them too and that's really
65:26
what it comes down to yep Chris is there
65:31
any any thoughts about what people can
65:32
do on the ground if they want to help is
65:34
there is there some resources that you
65:37
can point them to I know you're working
65:38
with the ACLU but you're dealing with
65:40
this case on the ground I would be
65:42
remiss if we didn't at least point to
65:43
some tasks that people can do or some
65:46
call to actions that they can do right
65:47
now practically on the ground because
65:48
you're there you were in Brunswick the
65:50
other night I mean you're involved in
65:52
the case so how can if people want to
65:54
help how can they help and I'll be going
65:56
back to burns awake and echoing what
65:58
everyone was saying about Alexia's
66:00
matter the people of Brunswick want to
66:03
have justice right and they've been
66:05
searching for at this entire time
66:06
they've been searching them for it since
66:08
February 23rd when these two individuals
66:10
were supposed to be arrested they've
66:12
been searching for it when their
66:13
district attorney Jackie Johnson should
66:16
have directed the police to arrest these
66:17
individuals and put charges on them or
66:20
the second district attorney who also
66:23
recused himself while also wrote a
66:25
letter justifying not arresting these
66:27
individuals still no justice then
66:30
another third District
66:31
who took so long to even say that he was
66:34
gonna put together a grand jury and axe
66:37
the Georgia Bureau of Investigations you
66:39
could have gone through all those layers
66:41
that were set up including our Attorney
66:43
General who's appointing these other
66:46
special prosecutors or district
66:48
attorneys to take over the case so
66:50
they've been looking for justice and
66:52
again if this was another case you could
66:54
find a congressman and you can ask him
66:56
to have the Department of Justice to
66:59
actually look into those situations but
67:01
your congressman really doesn't care
67:02
about the community as well and by the
67:05
way you're dealing with not the
67:07
Department of Justice you're dealing
67:09
with the trunk Department of Justice so
67:12
all those layers where you know you're
67:14
not gonna find anything all of those
67:16
layers are leaving the people of
67:17
Brunswick is saying where did we find
67:19
help and we find help within a community
67:21
of ourselves like black people have
67:23
always done throughout the hundreds of
67:25
years who in this community when there's
67:27
an assault on us we have to come
67:29
together as well as good good folk as we
67:32
say in the cell who come together and
67:34
say that's just not right so yes you can
67:37
go to the ACLU GA and follow us as far
67:41
as the timeline of events of what's
67:42
happened in the state of Georgia you can
67:44
go to the Georgia n-double-a-cp website
67:46
and also find the same thing as well as
67:48
cause that advocacy of getting rid of
67:50
that first District Attorney Jackie
67:52
Johnson for interfering with this case
67:54
or the second District Attorney and
67:56
keeping yourself aware of everything
67:58
that's been happening here of course
68:00
more money is always helpful in
68:02
movements if you didn't have money when
68:04
have movements you always donate to your
68:07
local charities and local places and
68:09
also give money to that family as well
68:12
as they lost a 25 would be 26 and a day
68:16
old outside so do you know do they have
68:19
a go fund me or anything Chris up or
68:21
anything they do have a go fund me and
68:23
you can also give to the Georgia
68:25
n-double a-c-p who's pledged to give
68:27
100% of their proceeds to the family
68:29
okay if you I guess what I'll do after
68:32
the broadcast is get those links and
68:34
then I will make sure that they're put
68:35
in the description for everybody but
68:36
look everybody can do their part
68:38
everybody can do something and you know
68:40
everybody had to be Martin Luther King
68:41
everyone does that be elected
68:43
representative everybody should do
68:44
something
68:45
because we all have to do our part as
68:47
we've said often on this show eternal
68:49
vigilance is the price of freedom and we
68:50
go and we're gonna have to keep fighting
68:52
you know just this is a loose of thing
68:55
here in America
68:56
and it only it only we only acquire it
68:59
when we're willing to work for it as
69:01
hard as those who want to oppose it but
69:03
until next time I'm Rob Richardson
69:05
I'm James Keys I'm Tunde of Amana I'm
69:09
amazed across I'm Chris Bruce and we'll
69:12
see you next time