OPEN TRANSCRIPT

00:00
so anybody who is a small business owner
00:02
who has an insurance policy that has
00:05
business interruption insurance just
00:06
trying to bring it down here when they
00:09
are considered a non-essential business
00:11
and they're told to shut down from one
00:13
of these orders they have suffered loss
00:16
of use of and function of their of their
00:20
property if you believe we can change
00:22
the narrative if you believe we can
00:23
change our communities if you believe we
00:26
can change the outcome and we can change
00:31
to disruption now
00:33
welcome to disruption now I'm your host
00:36
and moderator Rob Richardson else Lee
00:41
all good I was gonna announce you but we
00:43
have Rick as Lee he came right in see
00:45
this man is already trained can you tell
00:46
he is a trained I mean an attorney
00:49
he's already trained I didn't have to
00:50
say I'd have to say Rick Osley already
00:53
said his name so anyway let me tell you
00:54
little more about him he's a board
00:55
certified trial attorney he's the former
00:57
president of the Broward County Trial
00:59
Lawyers Association graduated from
01:01
honors from the University of Florida we
01:03
won't hold that against him here in Ohio
01:04
that's okay and peace of Kanaka see
01:07
personal injury attorney as well as
01:09
insurance coverage attorney in South
01:11
Florida for over 20 years Rick how you
01:13
doing man I'm doing great thank you all
01:16
for having me I appreciate the
01:17
opportunity to try to help some people
01:19
well Rick I appreciate you being on the
01:21
show you know we've been we've got we've
01:24
had special coverage working with Tunde
01:26
and axial and making sure that people
01:28
know about opportunities and and how
01:31
they could have and how they could
01:32
protect themselves protect themselves in
01:34
this unique and for me every time and
01:39
we've had to focus particularly on small
01:41
businesses and small businesses like
01:44
everybody else or are they're scared and
01:46
and and they want to know how they can
01:49
protect themselves what rights they have
01:51
and so we're here from your from your
01:53
area to really talk about opportunities
01:56
with insurance because most small
01:57
businesses have insurance and they have
01:59
an insurance that might actually cover
02:02
them and they may they may not know that
02:04
or they may be discouraged from doing
02:05
that so what we're thankful right that
02:08
she would take the time to walk us
02:09
through that process because a lot of
02:12
people need to know that so just speak
02:13
about that business interruption
02:15
insurance what does that usually cover
02:18
what is that what does that mean and how
02:20
do you know if you have it well business
02:22
interruption insurance is something that
02:24
most businesses have almost all
02:26
businesses actually have within their
02:29
business owners policy business owners
02:32
policy commercial general liability
02:34
policy that's a lot of paper yeah two
02:38
different kind of policies and there's a
02:40
lot of paper but a business owners
02:43
policy is generally where you're going
02:45
to find business interruption coverage
02:48
so just kind of some broad strokes
02:50
business interruption coverage generally
02:53
comes into play when a business cannot
02:58
function because the building is either
03:00
damaged or there's loss related to the
03:03
building so typically what you see in
03:07
business interruption coverage is you
03:09
get a hurricane or a tornado or a flood
03:11
they have to close the doors nobody can
03:14
go in and then you lose business and so
03:18
that's what the coverage is usually it's
03:20
a couple of months that they'll cover
03:22
you for and it's listed within the
03:24
policy of how much you're covered for so
03:28
every policy is different we're
03:31
reviewing a ton of policies here we're
03:33
happy to do a free review for anybody
03:34
but the language of Allah says he's
03:37
happy to do a free review for you so
03:39
absolutely not so yeah we're blowing
03:42
opportunity do it you know do the review
03:47
with you now she has their own small
03:48
business now that I think about it and a
03:50
few other clients I'll have them look
03:51
just to see if they're looking at it
03:53
because I just you know I didn't even
03:54
think about this - so we discussed yes
03:57
so Willie with business interruption
03:59
coverage it is completely separate and
04:02
apart from anything that the government
04:04
is doing right now
04:05
so people might confuse it with the
04:08
payroll protection program where you go
04:10
to your bank and you fill out an
04:11
application and you try to get some of
04:12
the stimulus money that they've done
04:14
twice or they economically 7-3 loan
04:16
that's also part of the same thing yes
04:18
so this is another out of the way we had
04:20
a show on that if you look at Crone and
04:22
small businesses you wanna look at that
04:23
it's one of our first shows on this go
04:25
ahead Rick
04:26
okay so this is just something in your
04:29
financial toolbox and it's something
04:33
that's very important I think for people
04:34
to see which is you already probably
04:37
have this within your business within
04:40
your business plan and if you call your
04:42
insurance agent you ask them hey can you
04:44
send me my business owners policy my
04:46
commercial general liability policy you
04:49
can email that to me at info at Ellis
04:51
Lea law calm but base and I'll review it
04:54
for free it's no problem
04:55
basically it's within the policy and
04:57
typically you're gonna see I want to say
05:01
this as you get to that very quickly I'm
05:02
gonna have tuned they come in after you
05:04
go through that okay
05:06
depending on how your your agent
05:08
responds to you this would be a note to
05:10
if you do and if and how you should
05:12
continue the relationship this moment in
05:14
Cova 19 this is a this is a moment where
05:18
you're actually seeing if you have a
05:19
transactional relationship with your
05:21
with companies in general but
05:23
particularly your insurance company in
05:24
your agent you will know based upon how
05:27
this goes forward because this is this
05:29
is this is something insurance that
05:31
doesn't like to do is a lot of people
05:33
that need to have this coverage all at
05:34
the same time normally doesn't happen is
05:37
not in their business calculation model
05:38
so how you interact I would just say as
05:41
advice and how your agent actually
05:43
treats you in this moment and your
05:45
insurance company treat you in this
05:47
moment should be something that you
05:48
should consider and if you're a business
05:50
this is how you have to view your
05:52
customers this is a unique time and
05:53
moment go ahead Rick yeah and let me
05:56
just say this and then I'll turn over to
05:58
Tunde it's per question the basic thing
06:00
that every business needs to know is
06:02
whatever policy you already have it's
06:04
more likely than not that that business
06:06
interruption coverage is there so get on
06:08
the phone with your agent right away get
06:10
them to email you your policy I can talk
06:14
more specifically about where we find
06:15
the coverage and how the coverage is and
06:17
we can get into that and I also just
06:19
want to talk about sort of from from an
06:21
overview that there is some political
06:25
will here at the state and federal level
06:28
to make sure that this coverage gets
06:30
paid and we can go through that as far
06:32
as pending legislation and some things
06:34
that president Trump has said about this
06:36
but go ahead Tunde I think you had
06:38
wanted to ask something
06:39
and I appreciate your coming on Rick
06:42
this is great stuff because a lot of
06:44
people think of insurance is just dry
06:46
and boring they might not be wrong but
06:49
it's very important so it's a it is
06:53
resources like yourself who really
06:55
understand this stuff and Rob makes a
06:57
great point about a transactional
06:59
relationship with an agent and I would I
07:02
would say maybe and my thought is a
07:04
little bit different that you want an
07:07
agent that also understand what they're
07:08
selling and I think we've all had that
07:10
kind of experience where you call
07:13
somebody to try and explain what they
07:15
just sold you and they can't even do it
07:16
so it's great absolutely like you Rick
07:20
and on my side you know in our wealth
07:22
management firm that axial we don't do
07:25
property and casualty insurance I'm not
07:27
licensed for that usually we we refer
07:30
that out whenever a client needs that
07:32
help so the stuff that we can handle
07:34
in-house or the personal lines of
07:37
insurance such as life insurance
07:38
disability things that do have their own
07:41
nuances but generally it's more
07:43
straightforward I mean if you die that
07:44
that benefit of my life insurance policy
07:46
pays out period and so I got a few calls
07:49
actually kind of at the beginning of I
07:52
guess they're ramping up of the lock
07:54
down let's say in early April late March
07:57
early April from some business owner
08:01
clients of ours who had disability
08:03
insurance with us and they were
08:05
confusing that with business
08:06
interruption insurance they kept asking
08:09
the exact night is this gonna pay me now
08:10
that that I can't like open the business
08:13
and I said well unless you broke her
08:14
back somewhere in the last week that I
08:16
didn't know about I don't think so so
08:18
can you explain because I think language
08:21
is so important in general in our lives
08:24
but with insurance contracts we both
08:26
know that language is extremely
08:28
important people don't realize that an
08:30
insurance contract is really a legal
08:32
contract between yourself and the
08:34
insurance carrier and so that's why
08:37
there's a million pages of 2.0 on fine
08:39
print so if you can do on sound maybe as
08:41
an insurance company they yeah that's
08:43
all yeah and like the nuance between
08:45
disability because I think we generally
08:48
people understand it
08:50
the difference between something like
08:51
that and what we're talking about here
08:53
like a business interruption because I
08:55
think in some people in their mind well
08:56
they're like well if I'm disabled or or
08:59
whatever it's is still an interruption
09:00
so what's the real uniqueness of
09:02
business interruption insurance versus
09:04
you know anything else yeah like that's
09:06
a good way like how you want to actually
09:08
define business interruption insurance
09:09
is there so business income loss is lost
09:13
that your business suffers because of an
09:17
event and business interruption
09:20
insurance is a product that is sold
09:23
within the business policies so just to
09:26
contrast that with personal lines and
09:28
disability insurance
09:30
somebody's disabled they get hurt
09:31
they're losing income but it's not
09:34
income that their business is really
09:36
losing as its own entity so your
09:39
business as your own entity whether it's
09:41
a corporation a small corporation a
09:43
professional liability company limited
09:45
liability company that business entity
09:48
itself is suffering the loss and the
09:52
reason for that loss in this situation
09:56
is this global pandemic so I hope that
10:00
answers your question it's not personal
10:02
to the person it's personal to the
10:05
business and it is included in these
10:07
business policies because business
10:12
owners need to have this type of
10:15
coverage when you have inner business
10:18
interruption so the first place to look
10:20
in the policy if you'd like me to kind
10:22
of break it down a little bit is is your
10:25
declarations page which is usually the
10:27
one of the first pages that you have
10:28
kind of looks like this there's three or
10:31
four pages to it and you know I have to
10:35
block out what this particular one was
10:37
it's because it's a client but it's a
10:39
business description this will say what
10:41
type of business you have and that comes
10:43
into play it's very important but this
10:46
will tell you if you have the coverage
10:48
or not and and if you look at this on
10:50
this line and says business income and
10:53
with extra expense and what that says is
10:55
if you it has a limits of insurance of
10:57
80 thousand in this situation so if you
11:00
sustained if this client sustains loss
11:03
business income of eighty thousand
11:05
dollars over three to four weeks it
11:08
should cover and then the fight really
11:10
is well what is the cause of the loss
11:12
and what is the definition of loss so
11:14
what we have been seeing just to kind of
11:16
get into this a little bit is that yeah
11:19
that's a good point like what do
11:20
insurance push better on yeah so the
11:23
insurance companies want to all say and
11:25
they've been doing a lot of public
11:26
relations about this and don't even
11:28
bother making the claim and you'll call
11:30
your agent and they'll tell you I'm not
11:32
sending me the policy because you're not
11:35
you don't have it it's not a physical
11:37
loss to the business the agent says it's
11:39
my advice to you is to after this get
11:41
another agent get another insurance
11:42
company go ahead you have a right to
11:44
read that policy which you probably
11:46
already have somewhere in your system
11:47
your agent should provide it to you like
11:51
that and your agent should say listen
11:53
I'm not a lawyer I don't know whether
11:56
it's covered or not and then give it to
11:58
you and you get that policy you go to a
12:00
lawyer somebody interprets it for you
12:02
but what's typically happening is people
12:05
are discouraged and that's why the
12:07
people who are listening to your program
12:09
need to understand that within their own
12:12
policy let a professional look at it and
12:14
advise them so what I'm seeing here and
12:17
what we're getting a lot of are people
12:19
calling and saying hey they told me I
12:20
don't have it what what do I have and
12:22
there's a provision in these policies
12:24
called civil authority so if you have
12:28
business interruption coverage and a
12:31
civil authority like a government like
12:34
governor DeSantis did and I have this
12:37
for you that I emailed to you but these
12:40
are all the orders that governor's
12:41
DeSantis had issued over the last month
12:44
and a half
12:45
saying that non-essential businesses
12:47
have to close so then we have a similar
12:50
order here's then Ohio as well
12:52
Ohio has been very good about that
12:53
actually governor DeWine was really on
12:55
top of that but a non-essential business
12:58
is you know is really going to be the
13:01
key here because the governor is saying
13:03
in most of these states that you have to
13:05
close even local government the mayor
13:07
and city commission when your business
13:09
like a nail salon or or a barber shop
13:11
anything has to close this is when they
13:15
need to look at this interruption policy
13:16
because on
13:17
a civil authority provision of the
13:19
policy the language of the policy which
13:22
gets into the weeds and gets to be
13:23
esoteric they will typically cover
13:27
business interruption due to physical
13:31
loss or damage so the term physical loss
13:33
or damage is the key operating terms
13:35
that the insurance companies are going
13:37
to use to say oh there's no physical
13:39
damage there's so many ways around that
13:42
typically we start with what are the
13:45
deficits what they're gonna try to claim
13:47
just to break it down folks like yes
13:48
earlier so I wanna make sure everybody
13:50
areas following they're gonna try to
13:52
claim that because this is not like a
13:53
tornado when something hits you directly
13:56
like that or something like that that
13:58
they've known or an earthquake this is
13:59
not an eruption like that this is
14:02
something that is doesn't apply is not
14:05
the type of business is not the type of
14:06
business interruption I mean all right
14:08
here's the key
14:09
you're correct that's where the defense
14:11
comes in right your insurance agents
14:13
gonna say your building's open even
14:16
though you can't go because the law says
14:17
you can't go it's open it's it's the
14:19
building is not broken there's no
14:21
structural damage what the key is this
14:23
what the key situation is with this is
14:26
you as the business owner have lost the
14:29
use and function of that piece of
14:32
property you have ha state again you
14:34
have lost the use and function of that
14:37
office of that piece of property that
14:40
ran your business and so this was a
14:43
dance studio and so they can't do dances
14:47
they can't have little kids do dances on
14:49
this dance studio now they're gone for a
14:51
while yep it's a non-essential business
14:53
so they have now suffered loss and it is
14:57
the loss of use and function now the
14:59
insurance company writes the policy and
15:01
they write you know what the type of
15:04
business is they know what type of
15:05
business it is right so it's not like
15:07
there's some surprise for them so it's
15:09
akin to the fact that when you make up a
15:11
property the best way that I can say
15:13
this is if you have auto insurance and
15:18
it covers you for the loss of your
15:21
vehicle when it's stolen that car is
15:24
still in good shape it's not damaged
15:26
there's no property damage to the car
15:28
but you're still going to get a check
15:30
from the insurance company
15:31
when they've stolen your car because
15:33
you've lost the use and function of that
15:36
property it's the same situation here
15:39
you've lost the use and function of that
15:41
business so anybody who is a small
15:44
business owner who has an insurance
15:46
policy that has business interruption
15:48
insurance just trying to bring it down
15:50
here when they are considered a
15:52
non-essential business and they're told
15:55
to shut down from one of these orders
15:56
they have suffered loss of use and
16:00
function of their of their property it's
16:04
the loss of business purpose there's
16:07
some other issues here too before you go
16:09
before you get there I'm just trying to
16:11
so let's say you are now okay i'ma give
16:16
you example so you the business you
16:18
can't you are a I don't know your uh
16:20
your your dentist you're a dentist that
16:24
can't open their business right now but
16:26
let's and and because of the orders that
16:30
that the state has given you can use
16:32
that as a reason that's one question the
16:34
second part is follow-up is what happens
16:36
if the state reopens says you can open
16:40
and then you know all hell breaks loose
16:43
because you know everybody opened up too
16:45
early and you don't get any you you get
16:48
you get no customers coming in and it
16:50
still doesn't function how would that
16:52
work so there's two different issues two
16:55
different yes so one is a civil
16:57
authority which is an easier issue
16:58
because your amount mandated what am I
17:01
going to do break the law you know
17:02
that's the law that's a little bit
17:04
easier to make the argument the second
17:07
is a market is a function of the market
17:08
so if people are legally if you're
17:11
legally able to open but people are
17:13
scared to death because they don't want
17:15
to go out and get the haircut or they
17:16
don't want to be near anybody and you
17:18
lose business from that it's a harder
17:21
argument to make that you're entitled to
17:23
coverage we can discuss that and it
17:27
depends on on the language of the policy
17:30
but the you know and for a dentist by
17:33
the way that's a little of a mixture
17:36
because they are sort of healthcare
17:38
providers and you have to kind of look
17:40
at the local jurisdiction each one of
17:42
these will describe each one of these
17:43
orders will describe its nama dentists
17:45
can't be regular work you know we do
17:46
emergency work and does that count I
17:48
mean this is you see how the stuff gets
17:49
complicated real quick each is fact just
17:52
fact specific and then language specific
17:56
in your policy but people should
17:58
Explorer I mean I the point you made
18:00
earlier that the industry in general is
18:03
this is a criticism of the industry what
18:06
what they do is I was gonna say it's not
18:07
a criticism on the industry but it
18:08
really is I mean I have no problem doing
18:13
it yeah I was I guess I was trying to be
18:15
politically correct but I'm like what
18:16
the hell for
18:17
it's it's their goal is to not spend
18:20
money like this is their business model
18:22
it's how insurance works so they're
18:25
going to put these general campaigns to
18:27
try to discourage mass claims from
18:30
coming in but from the audience points
18:32
from the aalia's point of view your
18:34
small business is in your best interest
18:36
to listen like oh the only thing that
18:40
can happen is you're not covered but the
18:42
worst thing can happen is you're covered
18:44
you don't pursue the claims you miss out
18:45
an opportunity to recover eight to eight
18:47
thousand a hundred thousand whatever
18:48
your policy covers you have the
18:50
opportunity to protect yourself why
18:52
would you not do it and two points on
18:54
that even if you get payroll protection
18:57
coverage if you've gotten the money to
18:59
cover you're one of those do you can
19:01
well you know you can still make the
19:03
claim on your on your insurance and on
19:06
if you are able later to have that
19:12
payroll protection forgiven then it
19:15
might have an effect on what you get
19:17
here but without getting too much in
19:20
depth on that most people who keep their
19:22
employees it will be removed by the
19:24
government going there won't be any you
19:26
won't have to pay anything back so but I
19:28
wanted to touch on something real quick
19:30
that you bring in a broader sense the
19:32
push from the insurance industry has
19:33
been very publicly we're not covering
19:36
these but President Trump and Congress
19:39
there's actually a bill in Congress
19:40
that's that was filed April 10th let me
19:43
just kind of tell you that that's the
19:47
business interruption insurance coverage
19:49
Act of 2020 it's a pending bill right
19:52
now filed by a congressman in California
19:54
quote to make available insurance
19:57
coverage
19:58
for business interruption losses due to
20:01
viral pandemics forced closures of
20:04
businesses mandatory evacuations Public
20:08
Safety power shut offs and for other
20:10
purposes so what this is basically as a
20:13
congressional bill may or may not pass
20:15
that just says any of these exclusions
20:18
in business interruption policies
20:19
because there's the big one called virus
20:21
exclusion that we see all the time
20:22
there's ways around that but Congress
20:25
and many of the states in fact like
20:29
seven states Louisiana Massachusetts
20:31
Ohio are all having bills saying we got
20:35
to cover this and that's a big
20:39
discussion because it's a constitutional
20:41
situation where the government now is
20:44
going to say what can be in a policy and
20:46
what can't right
20:47
the insurance companies have responded
20:49
to that by saying hey we're happy to pay
20:51
these policies we don't think we need to
20:54
but we're happy birnley if the
20:57
government fails us out course I thought
21:00
we've become we've the line right right
21:02
but President Trump spoke on this on
21:05
April 10th and he said at his press
21:07
conference he says a lot of things at
21:09
his press conference but I liked here
21:10
and what he said here which is quote you
21:13
have people that have never asked for
21:15
business interruption insurance and they
21:17
have been paying a lot of money for a
21:18
lot of years for the privilege of having
21:20
it and then when they finally need it
21:23
the insurance company says we're not
21:24
going to give it we can't let that
21:26
happen
21:27
that's President Donald Trump well let's
21:30
hope that means something in terms of
21:31
people's lives and to day this is where
21:38
tuna comes in the other side of that is
21:40
if the insurance companies are forced to
21:42
pay these claims and it's another
21:44
government bailout they're talking about
21:47
eight hundred and forty billion dollars
21:48
on month the insurance companies have
21:51
said through their lobbyists that they
21:52
would have to cover and they would all
21:54
go down so with that that's kind of what
21:57
we're set up with here at risk of going
22:02
bankrupt right yeah to the club no so I
22:05
am a couple things stood out on
22:08
on that conversation Rick and I
22:09
appreciate this is really interesting
22:11
stuff so like again back to his I don't
22:14
know where everybody is is watching this
22:16
so governor to Santis is for Rick and I
22:18
here in Florida and where you have
22:20
governor DeWine in Ohio Rahm but what I
22:24
find interesting with what that
22:26
conversation Rick is the essential
22:27
versus non-essential business because
22:29
remember for example the big thing that
22:31
was all over the news a few weeks ago
22:33
was governor to Santa stay in Florida
22:35
when he had a list of essential
22:37
businesses and one of them was the world
22:39
wrestling organizations Oh eww is that I
22:44
might not be considered a non-essential
22:46
business kind of you know wealth
22:47
management financial services type of
22:49
business and someone else might be here
22:52
in Florida because of the governor's
22:54
decision I'm wondering number one if I
22:58
am an essential business but let's say
23:01
maybe I own the business but I I'm a
23:05
diabetic or I asthma I've got some issue
23:07
that I'm really susceptible this virus
23:10
and I just think it's my own you know
23:12
I'm signing my own death wish that's
23:13
right this is it is there any recourse
23:16
for someone like that number one number
23:18
two just to address and I'll get it out
23:20
of me is um so I grew up in Washington
23:23
DC is where I'm born and from so I'm
23:26
just thinking about like a good small
23:28
middle sized business let's say in the
23:30
greater DC area or the tri-state in New
23:32
York you know you've got certain states
23:34
that are so much like let's say I had
23:36
three or four office locations or or
23:39
something like that but somewhere on
23:41
Northern Virginia side somewhere in the
23:43
Maryland side and maybe I even had an
23:44
office in DC well I've got now a
23:47
governor of Maryland a governor of
23:48
Virginia and an American DC they're all
23:51
gonna have different ideas of what
23:52
business means to that state or that
23:55
that city so it has there been any like
24:00
recourse for people in those you know
24:03
situations or like you said is this so
24:06
new because I agree with you on the
24:08
constitutionality of it because what a
24:09
lot of people don't realize is unlike
24:11
the banking sector and with like
24:14
securities like the SEC insurance
24:17
companies have to meet the smell test of
24:19
each insurance
24:20
commissioner's office within a state so
24:22
really they have to go and pass the
24:25
smell test in 50 individual states
24:27
so I guess to your point it's each state
24:29
has the ability also to tell an insurer
24:31
like how they can operate within the
24:33
state which makes this even more
24:35
confusing so I guess yeah I speak to
24:38
some of that those nuances per state and
24:40
per locality two things on the first
24:43
part of your question regarding
24:44
businesses that have offices in
24:46
different states your policy is going to
24:49
have a list of your locations it's
24:51
usually listed in one of the pages of
24:54
your policy so if the address you have
24:57
four offices or you have four locations
24:59
where you have your business like one of
25:01
those trampoline jump zone places or
25:03
something if they've got them everywhere
25:06
it's gonna your policy will regulate
25:09
that so let's say you have one in
25:11
Maryland and then one in Pennsylvania
25:13
but they're different on there they're
25:15
law your insurance policy will cover
25:17
whichever one suffers the business loss
25:19
from that location so you you will be
25:23
covered in for any location essentially
25:26
as far as uniform legislation there
25:30
really isn't unless Congress from a
25:32
federal level comes in and steps in with
25:35
these insurance companies and mandates
25:36
that they cover these business
25:39
interruption policies it starts with
25:41
those your policy actually have business
25:43
interruption insurance most business
25:45
owner policies do and then it'll show
25:48
what address is those insured loans are
25:51
for whichever one of those locations
25:54
loses money because of this that's where
25:57
you know or all of them that's we're
25:59
going to make your claim from on the
26:02
UNEP on the the uniformity of the states
26:05
if you know Maryland or Pennsylvania are
26:08
different in what they're doing how does
26:10
that is that what you're asking like how
26:11
does that affect yeah however if I had
26:14
the business and you know one state well
26:17
nobody's put it this way maybe it's not
26:18
so much the insurance carrier it's also
26:20
there's such a unique time because the
26:22
governors are making decisions about who
26:24
can be open-toe care be it's gonna be
26:26
state by state you might be very busy
26:28
with this Rick for a long time I think
26:31
I am and the issue is ultimately are the
26:35
policies going to cover it because I'm a
26:37
small business and I do this on a on a
26:39
contingency fee basis which is you don't
26:42
pay me by the hour we look at everything
26:44
and if we are able to make a claim it's
26:47
a contingency fee at the end so I have
26:48
to make a business decision about
26:50
whether each one of these particular
26:52
policies has a shot of making it and I
26:54
think yeah I think for the most part the
26:57
policies that I have seen for these
26:59
business owners the people who are
27:01
suffering out there and looking for you
27:03
know any avenue that they already may
27:05
even have in their policy it's
27:07
definitely worth a shot
27:08
there is this interruption policy should
27:11
cover loss of use and function of that
27:14
business no matter what state it's in no
27:16
matter where it's located and it it's
27:20
really much easier I think of an
27:22
argument when there is a civil authority
27:24
a government state or local that says
27:27
you cannot open so let me that's another
27:31
variation of that question so let's take
27:33
it as an essential business that might
27:34
it rule it out there but well I'm
27:36
healthcare organizations that talked to
27:41
recently that you know people think that
27:44
they're doing well they are actually not
27:46
doing well because because of you can
27:49
you can argue because of what the
27:51
government said they have to be they
27:52
have to prepare for all of these extra
27:54
hospitals this is extra extra hospital
27:57
beds this extra investment they had to
27:59
make and they couldn't do elective
28:02
surgeries that bring in a lot of income
28:04
so you got two of those things going on
28:07
and then you know at least in Ohio the
28:11
the projections didn't get there because
28:13
we we did a good job yeah take any
28:15
seriously on the front end so the so
28:17
they never had this overflow of hospital
28:19
beds and things like that like they have
28:20
in other areas so you have to pay all of
28:23
that money for that extra infrastructure
28:25
to support the models that the
28:28
government and others thought was going
28:29
to happen happen plus you're losing
28:32
income here do you think it's possible
28:34
that a healthcare organization could
28:37
qualify under their circle under those
28:38
circumstances beed that but knowing that
28:41
there are actually essential services so
28:42
they're still open but they can't be all
28:44
the way open
28:45
that makes sense ooh yes and you make
28:48
the point about something called extra
28:49
expense they go and get more beds they
28:51
get more equipment they've got to get
28:53
more PPE that they didn't really expect
28:56
because of what's going on in their
28:57
state that's actually covered in most of
28:59
these policies business interruption and
29:01
extra expense so it's within your policy
29:05
for the extra expense the question
29:07
though that's more preliminary is
29:08
essential or non-essential most of the
29:11
orders do not say you know I keep
29:15
showing this but there's so many of them
29:16
and they're all open window saying but
29:19
they don't really describe essential
29:22
services within a business or not so if
29:25
a doctor is on call and goes to the
29:27
emergency room but he's not doing the
29:29
elective hip replacement but he is going
29:32
in to to you know help this situation he
29:35
has lost business income because firm
29:38
and total hip replacement you know is
29:40
more lucrative than some of the other
29:43
things so it's definitely worth looking
29:44
at but the orders don't necessarily say
29:48
hey a doctor is essential for this but
29:50
not this you have to really look at each
29:52
individual order in whatever location
29:54
you're in state and local because these
29:57
orders are being issued all the time and
29:59
so keeping up with them is hard but it's
30:01
the language of the order and I'm just
30:03
going to kind of say that for the most
30:04
part and I would believe for the most
30:07
part they're not going to say whether
30:08
it's the service it's just more the
30:10
industry that make them ADEA that makes
30:14
it that makes it more likely than not it
30:15
wouldn't be covered it sounds like but
30:17
obviously pursuing yeah I mean but you
30:19
got to look at that everything comes
30:21
down what are the facts what is the
30:23
business described as within the policy
30:24
what is the policy language actually say
30:27
and then what is the current law in your
30:30
state you know we as lawyers line up
30:32
case law there's a lot of like prior
30:34
precedent for each one of these issues
30:36
depending on your state well how would
30:38
you go about actually trying to get
30:42
what's the best way to gather evidence
30:43
if you think you may have a claim and
30:45
what should you do to so prepare the
30:47
main the main thing you need to do is
30:49
number one get your policy number two
30:51
make sure you're paid on your policy for
30:53
all your premiums so they can't tell you
30:56
oh you didn't pay premium last month the
30:58
policies boy
30:59
you know just check that make sure you
31:01
have that those are the two things your
31:03
policy and your and your proof of your
31:04
premium payments the second thing is I
31:07
would say go and look at your at your
31:09
your P&L profit and loss statement for
31:12
the last couple years have that gathered
31:14
because that's going to show what's
31:16
happened to you in the past and you can
31:19
then demonstrate the losses that you've
31:22
had over the neck or you know over the
31:24
last month or two do you think know a
31:28
marketing company I work and I know they
31:32
lost significant amount of contracts
31:35
yeah because everybody stopped marketing
31:37
I mean do you think they might be
31:39
covered then - absolutely and the best
31:42
policies actually are event planning
31:44
companies because the event planning
31:47
companies again I'm going to show you
31:49
this every policy has so many different
31:51
provisions and they're all tailored
31:53
individually generally to different
31:55
types of businesses so your marketing
31:57
company that you just mentioned or event
31:59
planning companies their policy language
32:02
is going to cover a whole bunch of
32:03
different stuff but they're all
32:05
different it's insurance is not a
32:07
one-size-fits-all but that marketing
32:09
company absolutely is probably going to
32:12
be covered for this because there's
32:14
going to be a lot of losses and again
32:17
they've lost the use and the function of
32:19
their ability to do the work right well
32:22
let's actually say someone gets denied
32:24
they are following your advice and they
32:27
get denied their claim and what would
32:29
you advise that they do at that point
32:31
well hopefully they would call it they
32:33
would have called me before they made
32:34
the claim I always tell people this is a
32:35
good point cuz I'm a lawyer - enough and
32:37
and I tell folks you know it would've
32:40
been better to hire me before you did
32:41
this then after but I'll come but it's
32:43
always much more slowly as if to you so
32:46
so if there's someone out there
32:48
listening and they've called their agent
32:49
and they've written their letter and
32:51
they've submitted you know their stuff
32:52
and there's a denial letter usually the
32:54
denial letter will quote the language of
32:56
the policy for the denial it's no
32:58
physical damage that's what they're
33:00
saying you're out that's when they can
33:02
send me their policy in the letters and
33:03
what we will then do is read it very
33:07
carefully and make sure we we can make a
33:09
good claim and then we'll file the
33:10
lawsuit usually an undeclared
33:12
judgment action so that we can have a
33:16
judge declare what is covered and what
33:18
is not covered I actually had one the
33:21
other day where the they paid some of it
33:24
they wouldn't pay the full four weeks
33:26
they paid some of it and that was a
33:28
little bit easier because we weren't
33:29
fighting coverage so in that situation
33:32
we were fighting what their exposure was
33:34
and that's a lawsuit for a breach of
33:36
contract and the defense was not that
33:39
you didn't have a contract or was it
33:40
cuts more to play by the insurance
33:42
company no that's not what I don't know
33:44
I think if I were the insurance I would
33:46
maybe deny coverage in some ways because
33:48
then every time they deny it's more
33:50
discouraging for people who don't have
33:51
yeah you know if you pay somebody who
33:53
doesn't have a lawyer if you're the
33:55
insurance company and they get a little
33:56
bit and they think they're entitled to
33:59
more well the insurance company's not
34:01
denying coverage all that the top line
34:03
is the coverage fight it makes sense
34:05
makes sense yeah but you know I'm doing
34:07
free policy reviews all the time and you
34:09
see all kinds of different policies come
34:11
in it's just really interesting based on
34:13
the industry so no I do not go ahead
34:17
you've used that term business insurance
34:20
so I know that you know not everyone
34:23
listening is going to be an insurance
34:24
kind of expert and be able to go through
34:27
all these caveats what type of policy
34:29
are you really referring to it was
34:30
normally when I see business owners say
34:32
they have a policy it's like a general
34:34
liability policy so there's there's
34:36
there's a commercial general liability
34:38
policy which will cover liability of the
34:42
business somebody slips and falls at
34:44
their business within that policy
34:46
sometimes there's also business owners
34:51
insurance or business property insurance
34:54
so that insures the property so the
34:56
policies that I think will cover this
34:58
that have the business interruption are
34:59
the commercial general liability
35:01
policies and the business owners
35:04
policies business owners policies are
35:07
generally part of what you get when you
35:08
get a commercial property policy so this
35:12
this whole package is a commercial
35:14
liability policy and a commercial
35:16
property owners policy but business
35:20
owners policies is generally what it's
35:21
called so any business out there
35:23
listening call your agent and say I want
35:26
mycommerce
35:26
general liability policy I want my
35:28
commercial property policy I want my
35:31
business owners policy typically any
35:33
business that rents space from you know
35:36
a shopping center or retail
35:38
establishment that landlord even an
35:42
office building is going to require all
35:44
of these policies in order for you to
35:46
sign a lease and that's the other thing
35:48
I just wanted to mention any business
35:50
that has a lease that they're having
35:52
problems with sometimes leases have
35:56
provisions in there that will help get
35:58
this done it's not that they'll cover it
36:00
but you may be able to get some of your
36:02
money back from the landlord in certain
36:04
situations under the lease and so that's
36:07
just another way to help you know small
36:09
business owners out there no no no so
36:14
yeah but it starts with the policy you
36:15
know and it's gonna be a big fight but
36:21
well that's why you have writers that's
36:23
why you have lawyers and Rick that's why
36:25
we appreciate you coming on I don't
36:28
realize and I'm deficient because I'm
36:29
the only non lawyer on here no you
36:33
didn't Glasser
36:35
to Nate you're really the center of the
36:37
wheel because you're the quarterback as
36:38
a financial planner business needs this
36:41
people are gonna go through you to being
36:44
a yours doing homework for a living all
36:45
your life and it's a high-powered
36:47
secretary no I'm kidding not really well
36:50
wait till we get in court
36:56
final question just kind of bit very
36:58
very different here what's do you have
37:00
any hope for what happens in the post
37:04
kovin 19 world what's your what's your
37:06
hope for what happens here after we give
37:08
me in the legal space in the legal space
37:11
or general I'm just just want to get
37:14
your this money get you get on get your
37:16
thoughts to things I think the legal
37:18
space is going to get much more
37:19
complicated and busy most lawyers I know
37:22
and my colleagues and we have meetings
37:25
on this once a month actually me once a
37:27
week with the judges we're doing
37:28
everything by zum hearings we're gonna
37:31
do a mock jury trial to see if that
37:33
works which will be very interesting but
37:35
the legal process is continuing the
37:39
chief judge here bra
37:40
County has issued an order against
37:42
moving forward with foreclosures kicking
37:44
people out of their houses it's on hold
37:46
right now but hearings depositions
37:48
mediations have one tomorrow are ongoing
37:52
so I think the legal situation I mean
37:55
laws regulate everything that will be
37:58
okay and good but I think from a human
38:02
standpoint and I saw a video on this
38:04
that's been viral everywhere this guy in
38:06
England wrote uh a lullaby to his son
38:10
from 20 years ago about how we did it
38:13
was very poignant about how everybody
38:16
kind of focused inside and within each
38:19
other even though we were separate and
38:21
the world came out better and you I
38:23
can't remember what it is now off the
38:24
top of my head but it was really very
38:27
very hopeful so my answer is I think
38:30
people will recognize how important
38:33
their family and friends are to them
38:34
their colleagues I mean people in my
38:37
office believe we miss each other you
38:39
know you miss that personal interaction
38:40
I think people will take that much more
38:44
to heart and will stop taking things for
38:47
granted I'm hopeful I'm very hopeful
38:49
about it once we can just get through
38:50
all the crap
38:51
Raquel's Lee I appreciate it man it was
38:53
great having you on thank you for the
38:55
time I enjoyed it
38:57
[Music]
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