“What I learned from that was before we get into any type of tangible investment, you need to do a lot of research. You need to study. You need to figure out your risk tolerance not only from a short-term perspective but from a long-term perspective.”-- Michael Dean

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ROB RICHARDSON
Welcome to Disruption Now. I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson.

TUNDE OGUNLANA
I’m Tunde Ogunlana.

ROB
And we have a special guest, Mr. Michael Dean who’s a former NFL player, now serial entrepreneur and we want to talk to him about his experience. We've been making a special emphasis during this time, this uncertainty of the coronavirus. It's affected many people, people that Michael may have thought that they were protected.

You've been that rookie athlete before. You know what it's like to reach what seems to be the pinnacle of your dream. You've reached to the NFL. You reached to the NBA, something that very few people can dream of. You're going to be a millionaire for life. Life is beautiful. Then things happen as you don't expect. The unexpected happens. Life happens.

And the unexpected has happened to a lot of people right now including athletes who don't know what or when or how much they're going to get because the future is uncertain and the times are uncertain.

Take yourself back to that moment when you first got there knowing… It seemed like you had the world in front of you. Try to put yourself in the current position of athletes right now. I think athletes are in the same position like many other people. What would you tell them right now based upon your experience and how should we proceed?

MICHAEL DEAN
Well first of all, Rob and Tunde, thank you so much for having me, man. It’s been an honor to join you guys in this platform.

That's a great question. You know, when you really go back to the initial dream of any professional athlete from when they initially started that journey, that was part of the dream, is, “I'm going to make it. I'm going to not only take care of myself financially for the rest of my life but I'm also going to provide the foundation to take care of my entire family for the rest of my life,” right? So that's part of the fuel that these athletes tap into on a daily basis.

When I think about myself at that time period… I was undrafted free agent rookie with the Carolina Panthers. So I didn't come into an abundance of money but I still had a thought process just the same of, “I'm going to make it. I'm going to make this money and I'm going to expand it to generational wealth.”

You know, when you are faced with the unknowns that we're currently facing, especially from a professional athlete’s standpoint, to where… We call it the “Template.” You declare for the draft. You get an agent. You get a financial advisor. And the age-old adage of, “You guys focus on the court” or “You guys focus on the field. We’re going to take care of everything else” immediately applies for these professional athletes now that's going through these uncertain times without the knowledge of “Why,” right?

So they've dumped in a bunch of money that they've worked too hard on. They’ve got a signing bonus and what have you and now you're hearing all of these jargons and terms and your overall portfolio is down 30% and you don't know why and you can't get ahold of your advisor. There's a lot of layers to it, right?

So I think right now in the current state of a professional athlete, they’re still trying to catch up in new finance 101. Wow, they’re live in these markets and their lifelong dreams are being dwindled down considerably.

So when I think back to myself at that time period of not knowing what we’re facing now and not even knowing it was a possibility of having these things happen, it was very scary for myself.

I majored in finance at the University of Illinois so I had a little bit of a leg up but for my constituents and my other colleagues, they were behind. I came to believe in 2000, when we were quasi… in a great or good economic position going all the way up through when I retired in 2001, fast forward to 2008, and we're facing the first economic recession… And I'm at that time within the athlete's world… Real estate was really booming, right?

ROB
Yeah.

MICHAEL
A really big discussion in the locker room. Everyone was going to be the next real estate mogul.

ROB
Yeah, everybody.
MICHAEL
Everybody, right?

ROB
He’s raising money. He’s raising opportun… We just do it.

MICHAEL
Just do it, right? So even myself, even though I wasn't in the league… I had an abundance of athlete clients and friends. And I own eight properties of my own and each of my friends and clients own multiple properties and we were going to be this huge real estate mogul. And then coming out of the recession in 2010-11, it taught me a lot, right? So now we're facing these times in 2018 to where… With a professional athlete that's just getting into the league, they are really at a disadvantage not only from--

ROB
Before you get there, I want to dive and know what you learned because I think there's a lot to take away from that.

TUNDE
Yeah, I was going to ask you the same.

ROB
Yeah. And I know Tunde has some experience with this, too.

One of our top-viewed shows was with Robert Greene and he talked about no matter how smart people are -- you're smart, too -- we find ourselves following the crowd particularly when it's about not wanting to miss out on a chance to get rich. Isaac Newton fell for it in the South Sea stock bubble. You can look at that old episode. It's a great episode with Robert Greene that we talked to him about.

You found yourself, I'm sure, caught up in it because a lot of us were. Talk about those lessons and what that can teach you because there's a moment where people might overreact to or underreact in this moment, too. I think that's where you're going. But I want to hear what you learned in the last Great Recession.

MICHAEL
I learned a lot. That's a great point, Rob. Coming into the initial premise of building generational wealth, you want to have diversification, right? As an athlete, we hear all these key phrases -- “diversification” and “You want to have generational wealth.” You're thrown so many different phrases that you want to be a part of.

At that time, real estate was booming. I didn't really know much about residential real estate outside of buying and selling a home. That's my primary. I didn't have a lot of knowledge as a real estate investor. That being said, I knew that I had cash. I knew that there are opportunities out there.

And from my athlete’s standpoint, really try to dumb it down to one plus one equals two. So to me, “Hey, we're going to buy these homes at a discount. They're going to appreciate. You're going to sell it at a premium. You're going to make money.” So I was like, “Man, it sounds good to me. It's a tangible asset that I can always…” You know, it's a commodity that I can touch, I can feel, and it's an appreciating asset.

So once that was sold to me, I jumped all the way in. I went from not owning any homes but owning eight homes in a span of about 3 months. So I owned own homes in Charlotte. I owned homes in Atlanta. I owned homes in Chicago. I thought I was on my way. Little did I know, coming down the threshold, three and a half years later was this thing called a “Recession” -- a real estate bubble bursting, right? No one during that initial phase of the pitch told me that. They didn’t say, “Hey, Michael, you buy these homes in 2003 but in 2007-2008, this thing is going to crash and you better be able to prepare for some down time during that time period.”

So when I was faced with those challenges in 2007-2008, all those people that sold me their initial dream, they were gone. And I did have to educate myself on the laws, the protection and also just how to get out where I am from a risk analysis perspective and figured out where the bottom was going to be and then proceeding from there to protect my financial lifeline at that time.

So what I learned from that was before you get into any type of tangible investment, you need to do a lot of research. You need to study. You need to figure out your risk tolerance not only from a short-term perspective but from a long-term perspective.

ROB
Right. That’s actually one of Warren Buffett's thing. He didn't invest in a lot of businesses that made a lot of money. He had a simple answer. They said, “Well why didn't you invest more…” I can’t remember if it was Apple or Google. He said, “I didn't understand how they make their money so I didn’t invest. It’s not that that wasn't a good investment, that's just the area that I don't understand so I'm not going to invest in it.” That's such good advice. It’s like, if you're going to invest… This is your money.

It’s not only professional athletes but a lot of us were like, “Okay, we don’t…” We feel like we want to just turn ourselves over to the “Professionals.” But as you know, turning it over to the professionals is… They don't always know what they're talking about either. One, they’re not always looking out for your best interests.

MICHAEL
And most importantly, Rob, with the athletes, we're normally thrown into the speculative deals. We're not going into the Class A “can't-miss” deals. We're normally thrown into the ones that have high risk and hopeful returns.

ROB
“High risk and hopeful returns.” [Laughter]

MICHAEL
Right, not knowing that because you look at it from an overall perspective--

ROB
Hope is not a good strategy when it comes to finances. We need some data.

MICHAEL
Yeah. So that was the thing because normally, with an athlete, especially when you get to the respective leagues, you're thinking… Just like every other part of your life, when you walk into a restaurant, you’re ushered to the best table. When you walk in to a nightclub, you're ushered to the best table. You're getting the best physical regiments out there. We're getting the best of everything, right?

So it's so weird that now we go to the financial world of an athlete, you think because you're with the Morgans, you’re with the UPSs, you’re with the Goldmans, you're in their private wealth group, you're thinking like, “Yeah, this is universal to everything else I'm receiving up to this point of having the top of the top.” But when you really peel it back to its granular form, you are in these speculative deals. You're not in the deals where the primary information is being distributed so that you can make an educated decision. So you’re really making tangible decisions with very limited information.

Like for myself, when I peeled it back to those time periods of purchasing those real estate properties, if you would have had asked me at that time, “Hey, Michael, what's the average appreciation for those properties in that area per year,” I didn't know it, right?

ROB
Right.

MICHAEL
If you're going to ask me, “Hey, list of rental amount, average rental amount,” like infrastructure, whatever things you need to be a successful landlord, I didn't know. All those things I learned on the fly once I signed that HUD statement in those closing documents.

What it did teach me though, coming out of it, was how to be immensely prepared for the next opportunities. Because I was a professional athlete, I understood that phrase “Opened up for me.” So I really started to sharpen my sword and making sure that I do use that platform to open those doors and to also still educate myself before making those type of decisions moving forward.

ROB
So how did you overcome though the point you made earlier about being an athlete… And essentially, when you're good, early on, starting probably in middle school, people give you preferential treatment.

MICHAEL
Absolutely.

ROB
Right? And I think with… And I’ll say this with black men. They give us preferential treatment and sometimes lower the academic expectation.

MICHAEL
Absolutely.

ROB
I've been in the room… I wasn't as good as you but I've been in the room with people as good as you. I had a coach even say, “Why are you taking these advanced classes? You need to just be focused on the game.” I'm like, “What in hell?” So my question, and I want to jump to Tunde for a question, how did you overcome those, I guess, stereotypical expectations?

We got the bad deals a lot because of that… I mean racism still exists. The constructs still exist. You can make money but people still see you a certain way. You know, “You're not on that level. You don't have that level.” How do you work against fighting against those stereotypes in your own life so they don't actually play themselves out?

MICHAEL
Little did I know, Rob, when I was going through what I call my own “Personal journey” was that I had an amazing infrastructure, that I was able to walk into… That infrastructure was--

I'm the youngest of three. I have an older brother who's 7 years older than me. I have a older sister who's five years older than me. They were amazing students. They put together a blueprint for me to follow without me even knowing it. They both majored in accounting. I'm an HBCU at Claflin University. My parents as well were both educated individuals. At that time, because I was born into that infrastructure, I didn't really know that that cocoon was built around me until I got into college.

And like I mentioned, these other platforms in the locker rooms, and I saw everyone else's infrastructure and then as I got older, I was able to go back and really break it down to say, “Wow. I was really blessed to come from an two-parent household.” My parents were married 50 years. I had an older brother, an older sister.

So when I faced those similar challenges, Rob, that you mentioned, and the coaches would come in and try to have us take lesser classes and not the magnet classes -- you know, the basic math and basic science just to stay eligible -- my parents and my brother, my sister was not having it. You know what I mean? So they would be the ones… And I would be upset with them.

ROB
Yeah.

MICHAEL
I wanted to be with my friends. You know what I mean? Why am I getting [crosstalk] [inaudible - 14:46]…

ROB
I get it.

MICHAEL
…when everyone else was taking Math 1? You know what I mean?

ROB
Yeah.

MICHAEL
So I would be upset because I wanted to be with my friends. I didn't want to stand out and be singled out. But they always had the fortitude to understand what was coming ahead of me and understanding that at some point, my athletic ability was going to wane. And at that time, my mind was going to have to pick it up. So at that time, when I started--

I started playing football when I was five years old. I was 100% athlete and 0% quasi business man at that time. When I retired at 23, I was 0% athlete and 100% business man. And I clearly understood--

I have a lot of epiphanies in my short time period in the league of understanding that my time as an athlete was coming to an end but I also had a smile on my face because the same energy and the same confidence that I had in my athletic ability, I had in my mind and my business acumen even before. But it was mainly due to my parents and my brother and my sister.

ROB
And I think that's such a… Well I’ll get to you, Tunde. I want to say this really important point. I think we have to work harder to disrupt this with our youth, to tell them that no matter how good you are in athletics…

MICHAEL
Absolutely.

ROB
…it's not going to work out for you long term if you don't develop this. I don't care how good you are. If you want to look at the great ones, the real great ones like Kobe Bryant… Kobe Bryant made most of his wealth, post. It wasn't even that long, right?

So people have to understand, developing your brain is not wasting your time as an athlete. It actually makes you a better athlete. It will make you more money. You can't have one without the other because if you don't develop that, you're not going to make it.

We see this play out again and again. Adrian Peterson lost a hundred million dollars and people, like you said, “How can he do that?” It's real easy if you're not developing a financial plan mindset. If you fall into the trap that you’re special and that people are always going to take care of you, as soon as they don't need you, you're out.

MICHAEL
To bring that story to life, my brother and my sister both graduated with an accounting degree. And going into college, I'm getting recruited fairly heavily and college coaches are coming. They're asking me about what position I want to play and some of the things I like about the program. And then we would briefly talk to the academic counselor for about five minutes through the whole process. The academic counselor would ask me, “Michael, what do you want to major in” and I would say, “Accounting.”

Now if you had to ask this next question to me, I didn't know. If you asked, “Michael, what is accounting,” I didn't know that. I just knew that my brother and my sister were accountants and it is working for them so it's going to work for me, right?

Going into a business school in any university, that comes with a lot of responsibilities, right? So I can always tell my parents, most importantly, when I would say that to a college coach, depending on what school they were representing, they would have a different type of reaction. If I'm saying that to a college coach that is expected to win 10-11 games a year, he would have a different reaction than a college coach that is expected to win five to seven to eight games a year.

I was blessed to have selected University of Illinois as my school of choice to go pursue academic, most my athletic career, within… So I arrived on campus. Normally, the freshmens have to… or the football team, generally, have to arrive on campus for fall semester about two to three weeks prior to school starting because we have to get ready for the season.
ROB
Yeah.

MICHAEL
Freshmens normally arrive a week before the upperclassmen. So I arrived on campus. We started practicing three days and so on and so forth. School started to get closer and closer as we’re nearing Labor Day. The school normally starts after Labor Day. So we're getting close to school. I would say it’s about 10 days out before the first day of school. And my mom was asking me every time, after practice at night, have I selected my classes yet. And I'm like, “No, I haven't selected any classes. No one has talked me about any class. I'm just practicing football.”

So the next day goes by. The next day goes by. And every night, she asked me that question. So we get to the Monday prior to school starting. So school is starting the following Monday. Same process. “Michael, have you selected your classes yet?” “Nope.” Tuesday… So we get to Friday. I walk in the locker room and I have a bunch of orange bags in front of my locker -- plastic bags. It’s about 10 of them. Me, being an athlete, I'm thinking we were sponsored by Nike. This is our merch for the year.

ROB
Right.

MICHAEL
I'm thinking I’m about to get a fresh Nike gear. I’m about to get some Js. I’m about to get some warm-ups. Like, “Okay this is what college lifestyle is about.” Right? So I look in the bag. To my disappointment, I see books.

ROB
[Laughter]

MICHAEL
I’m like, “What is this?” I’m pulling out the books, looking at them, what have you, pulling out the syllabus, looking at that, reading. I pulled out my class schedule. Then I get on phone, I call my mom. I said, “Hey, mom. Guess what? I actually got my class books today in my classes.” She says, “You got your books in your classes?” I said, “Yeah.” She says, “Whoa. Did you select them?” I said, “No.” She said, “Did you talk to anybody?” I said, “No.” She said, “So how did you get them?” I said, “They were just here.” She says, “Okay.” So she calls the--

You know, with power sports, football and basketball, we have our own academic counselor. So she calls the academic councilor at that time and she says, “Hey, Michael just mentioned that he received his syllabus and his class schedule and his books but he never had selected any of them.” The academic counselor said, “No, Miss Dean. With him being a true freshman, we select his classes for him to help balance his transition to being a student-athlete.”

ROB
Oh wow.

MICHAEL
So my mom, understanding she’s a college-educated individual, my brother and my sister going through the process, her next question is, “Well when he's done with these electives, what major is he going to be in?” Like, “What does these classes lead into?” So she says, “Speech communications.” 80% of our team was majored in speech comm, okay? My mom said, “No. Michael wants to major in business.” So she said, “Okay, that's fine.”

So she calls me upstairs -- the academic counselor. She tells me to go and bring my books and everything. I bring my books to her. She makes a phone call. The phone call is to the business school. She tells him who I am. She tells him what I want to do. She writes a name on a sticky note. She gives me the sticky note. She tells me to go talk to this guy over on the other side of campus. I go over there. I tell him who I am. I gave him the sticky note. They made the transfer. You know, pulled out my transcripts and everything. Everything checks out and I get transferred over to the business school which at that time, and I'm pretty surely is now, University of Illinois has the top 10 business school in the country.

ROB
Right.

MICHAEL
Looking back now, my teammates always just looked at me as an anomaly because I was one of the few… I think it was myself and another African-American through my tenure there that majored in business, and we had 83 guys on scholarship. So people would always look at me as the anomaly. “Man, how are you performing being a starter on a Big Ten team but still majoring in finance and doing quite well for yourself?” So just to tell you that story because it’s still going on now.

ROB
That’s such an important story because you just bring up points that they were… They made it easy for you to take the easy way out but put a barrier for you in order to take business classes. And most people are going to default to the path that, “Oh this is what I'm supposed to do,” not understanding that that's setting them up for a fall in the long term. All they want them focused on is the short term which is why I have so many problems with how we educate our athletes. When they say they're going there for school, it's a lie because half the time, they just make sure they're going there to perform. -- Tunde.

MICHAEL
The eligibles. So if it wasn't for my mom, I would have fell right in line with the crowd…

ROB
Yeah.

MICHAEL
…because I didn't know anything else. So just a little quick little tip bit.

ROB
I think that's very important. I'm glad you shared that story.

MICHAEL
Absolutely.

TUNDE
Michael, thank you for sharing the story because there's a lot of things that are bringing back memories for me. Obviously, we have a similar path but not exactly the same. I never played professional sports, only college. And it was basketball, not football, so we only had 14 guys not 83. But the journey is very similar in terms of… in my experience of, like you're saying, watching friends of mine at that time being told what classes they're going to take and kind of just accepting that, where guys like us didn't accept it and went for the harder challenge.

And there’s a lot that can be unpacked with all that, historically, in how people are brought up and the education they get in elementary through high school and their confidence to be able to navigate the minefield of a university education system and then their family dynamics. And I appreciate you sharing about your family, too, because it shows how important being in the right environment from day one is.

But share with us too like… because you're bringing out a lot of interesting things. I could see some young student athletes and young professional athletes watching some point of this and not yet understanding because a lot of the things you're talking about take experience, even the professional athletes that I've worked with in the past from a wealth management standpoint. Fortunately, by the time I've begun the relationship with them is because they already kind of got “burned” somewhere else.

MICHAEL
Mm-hmm.

TUNDE
There was a little bit more ability, not only to trust… I mean that has to be earned and built over time -- the idea of trust -- but more like the idea of not chasing everything. Because you bring up a good point where… Because guys are so young when they're coming into this money. You know, most, obviously, professional athletes are probably in their early 20s when they’re getting these huge contracts. They don't yet have the life experience to know, number one, how to deal with kind of the shysters and how to spot them and number two, just to understand like a good business investment or the markets or anything like that.

So one thing that I think you could help since you have such a broad experience from -- and I want to highlight this from you -- not only having played professional sports, been in the NFL and then also a finance degree but you're also a certified financial planner. And you were a financial planner for many years. So I think you have a unique ability to kind of share with the audience… Like, what should people look for when they're looking for an advisory team, number one. And this is not just athletes. I mean if there’s anyone watching, just--

When you're selecting your attorney, your accountant, your financial advisor or a financial planner, what should they be looking out for? What questions should they be confident to be able to ask? Even if they don't feel they have a big command of finance or investments, there are still certain key questions that people could ask.

And then lastly, just your thoughts for anyone in today's world with… It's April now, 2020. We're dealing with the coronavirus issues. So have you seen a need to change? Any advice that you may have otherwise given someone that's younger that's looking at how to build these advisory teams around them in this environment?

MICHAEL
That’s a great question, Tunde, so I’ll kind of peel it down and to answer each of them in segments.

I think from an advisor standpoint, one of the key things that an athlete should look for -- but also anyone that's in the position to be an accredited investor -- is initially, a relationship. Can you really see yourself having a relationship not only with that firm but with that individual advisor? Because as you all know, the pitch is just to be where… That person is going to be with you throughout your whole life cycle of your financial well-being, right? It's not a one-year decision. It's not a five-year decision. It's a 30 to 50-year decision.

A lot of times, athletes condense it down or accredited investors condense that relationship down to a very granular form. They need to expand it out to say, “First of all, do I have a relationship or can I build a relationship with that person? Is that person or that entity educating me,” right? “So before I sign on the dotted line, are they providing the educational tools that will help build my business acumen so that I can make a tangible decision on who should represent me in this financial space?”

I think a lot of times, especially with athletes, it's the adverse effect. We sign with a guy and then we try to find out all these things where we should reverse that process to where we should get tangible things prior to, meaning, educational tools. What is that person's investment strategy? And not only from a short-term standpoint but from a long-term standpoint. What does that individual advisor… What has he invested in? What's important to him? What is his risk tolerance overall” because a lot of times, his risk tolerance may be different than yours.

And I think that, overall, being with a reputable firm, I think that's very key. I think being with… not so much chasing who that advisor has because I think that's another policy in the game is to where a lot of these advisors or agents will walk up and their first comment to the guy is, “I have this person, this person, this person, this person, this person.” They name the top five wide receivers average salary pay guys in the league. And for a rookie, I'm like, “Oh man, you're managing Larry Fitzgerald's money? Wow, I feel honored to even have you talking to me because I'm an undrafted rookie. I should be thanking you.” No. It doesn't matter who he’s managing.

And that is how those portfolios are performing and how the relationship… It’s, “How has he helped that athlete or that colleague educate himself?” And so myself being a former--

ROB
I think you're driving to a really important point. If I can just interrupt you for a second. How I simplify what you're saying is something like Einstein said. He said, “Look, if you can't explain it to a six-year-old then you don't really understand it.”

And when you're dealing an advisor I think who was trying to talk to you in a way, they’re like, “Oh you can't understand this stuff. It's too much for you. Don't worry about it. Just go out there and play football. I have this” and they're not willing to explain it and respect you enough where they can explain it to you where you can learn it… because none of this stuff is… I won't say it's easy. None of it can't be learned. It can be learned and it can be taught. And if you don't have somebody that's willing to teach you, that should be a warning sign, I think is what you're saying.

MICHAEL
Yeah.

ROB
Second, I want to get to is how do you get people to not fall for the, “Oh this is Merrill Lynch”? So going with the independent advisor is… You guys don't have it because I have to go with “Merrill Lynch.” And a lot of times, they don't give them the same scrutiny as they might give a Michael or a Tunde. Talk about how hard we can be on ourselves, particularly -- I'm talking about black athletes now, too -- how we need to just make sure we're being equal in our treatment and how we evaluate who advises us?

MICHAEL
It’s a huge thing where we all have fell for in one stage or another the way, unfortunately, the overall perception of African-Americans in the professional sports base is frowned upon. When we walk in a room and we see five individuals that's vying for our business and one of those individuals is black, we immediately put up our guard to that black guy because we're like… he comes from the same cloth with us and we look at them as hustlers especially if they're a young guy.

That was one of the things that I faced very early in my financial career. Being young, being the same age with guys is that they looked at me as a hustler even though I came from an accredited institution; I had all my certifications, right, they still kind of had their guard up for me because, unfortunately, of the color of my skin. It's just a thing that we all know. Just going back the test of time, this is something that we have struggled for long.

ROB
How did you work to overcome that because you obviously had success.

MICHAEL
Right. And that's the thing to where with myself, going back to when I was 23 years old and out on the market of recruiting guys, one of the biggest things that I initially did for my guys was to build that trust. I taught them with no fees. I told them, “Hey, send me your stuff” while I’ll get on calls with them. For people, I was pitching them and I would really break it down. I was able to articulate myself to that athlete. I would educate them, not for where I want them to be currently but from where they are. So I would really peel it down and I would really articulate it to where they understood exactly the scenario. They were able to be extremely diligent in their conversation and their understanding.

ROB
So you provided value before you got money which is something people don't… I think people think you go into it like everything and… Of course, you got to make money but people don't realize, the way to get there is to add value first -- build trust -- then you get value back once you've given it.

MICHAEL
Yeah, absolutely because for me, I really wanted to build and still am building long-term relationships. I tell my guys all the time, “For us to grow as a firm, we need you guys to go visually -- from your business acumen, from your other…” I want to continue evolving, throwing out conversation because that helps us get into bigger and better deals because our acumen matches the deals that [enriched - 33:24] us.

ROB
Yeah. So that's this moment, too. I think if you bring it back to the moment we're in right now… know Tunde have some questions, too. And this is Tunde's philosophy, too, because I work with him. He's about building the relationships, building the value. Or some people think the only way to do it is you get a transaction. “The only way I'm going to deal with this person is I have to get paid right now.” And you know what? That's such short-term thinking. Understanding that right now a lot of people don't have money in the coronavirus world. People that have money don't have it. People that have some money are figuring out how to hold on what they have.

So if you can figure out a way to be strategic and be long-term and hold on long enough to provide value while not trying to get an immediate return… I know this is hard in some people's world if you have immediate needs right now. But if you can, build towards values.

MICHAEL
I’m on situations right now as well because these times are where the relationship kicks in, right, because you have to pivot. You have to figure it out, right? So at these times, I could almost promise you… You have a lot of advisors who would have these guys and heavy… you know, feed-based, low accounts that they've been paid up front, right?

ROB
Yep.

MICHAEL
And now because they've already gotten their money out of these athletes, they know those accounts get down to a margin call. You're calling these guys. “Hey man, unfortunately, the market is down 30%. But guess what? Your account is only down 21%.”

They're not explaining why it's down. They're just like, “Hey, unfortunately, we have a margin call. We need you to wire transfer 100k to this day in this private wealth group. If not then we’ll just convert your account to the smaller group.” They're kicking guys out.

They don't have a relationship with those guys. They’re not pivoting. They're not like, “Hey guys, the market is doing this. Let me sit down and reassess where you are and pivot.”

And then most importantly, which is another thing I did for my guys and what we're still doing with Axial, is I found other means of revenue for these guys. I help them get endorsement deals. I help them get diversification [crosstalk] [inaudible - 35:28]--

ROB
People understand your value because in the Black community in particular -- I've said this before -- money flows through us often. There's a lot of money being generated from us but it's not coming to us. It's time for us to understand our value. So I'm glad you're looking at it that way.
And people like you, you make sure that they understand their value upfront because you're a very valuable commodity. -- I’d like to say it that way. But you are in some ways. -- Recognize the value of what you can bring and that you can do a lot more than just transfer money to other people. You can actually build opportunities for not only your community but your family. -- Tunde, did you have some other questions you want to get to?

TUNDE
Yeah. This is great, Mike. Again, I appreciate you joining us. I've got a sheet full of notes here that I keep writing stuff as you guys were talking. But one of the things I wrote down here is “Cash is King,” going back to your comment about… you know. Because I think it's--

And obviously, the universe of professional athletes compared to the non-athletes in our society is extremely small. So I think the statement I’m going to make, I would include young professionals that are doing pretty well at a young age. I would say, whether you're an athlete that has a million-dollar contract at 22-23 years old or maybe you're a professional corporate America that's 25 years old, already making a couple hundred thousand a year or late 20s, there's nothing wrong with being in cash. You know, a lot of people always try to say just because you're young, you should be buying stocks and all that. But to Michael's point, if you're uncomfortable watching your money swing around or having losses--

I've always found that if people understand what they own and they understand the system with which their money is in, like how the markets work, they're more comfortable to leave it alone when things fluctuate so that they actually can make money long-term versus being the average investor… kind of retail investor which is instead of “Buy low. Sell high,” which we all hear, most people, emotionally, they buy at the top and they sell at the bottom.

So I would rather tell a young athlete, “Just sit in cash till you're 30.”

MICHAEL
Yep.

TUNDE
Keep learning how things work in the markets. And then to your point, Michael, the market isn't the only place where people should be anyway. I know a lot of people that are wealthy that never touch stocks. They've owned businesses. They've owned real estate and things.

ROB
Yeah.

TUNDE
So when you're looking at true financial planning and wealth management and all this, it's not just talking about the stock market. I think from someone that's in our industry. I feel like the stock market gets way too much attention. Obviously, Wall Street is a very dominant sector in our economy so they want us to all feed the beast in a sense. But there's other areas in life that folks should be looking at.

And also, I feel like your experience is partly what made you better as well, right? Like your experience in real estate in 2008 with the crash… You know, you had eight properties. After that, you didn't have eight properties after the crash, all that.

And that's why I sometimes also try and tell young people -- not just athletes but anybody younger -- is… It's like when we learn how to walk as babies, everybody fell at some point. And we never try to walk again with all these riding and strollers.

ROB
Yep.

TUNDE
So the idea is that you're going to lose money in some endeavor at some point when you make an investment, period. Even Warren Buffett still loses money.

ROB
Correct.

TUNDE
So let's just… I feel like it’s like--

ROB
It's about the level of comfort of how much you're willing to lose and can’t lose.

TUNDE
Exactly. What I've learned with my own life experience, part of learning your own comfort level comes with learning the pain of the loss…

ROB
Living.

TUNDE
…that you know if you like this or not type of thing.

ROB
Yeah, it's true.

MICHAEL
And one thing I’ll add that I tell guys all the time is when you become a professional athlete, man, you’re 1% of the 1%. You've done something that very few have done. You've hit the lotto for the most part, right, even if you haven't made seven figures.

You know, I tell my guys all the time that's been playing for a league minimum, that's still mid to upper six figures, that you are at a competitive advantage to your colleagues that just graduated last year, right?

So if you've hit the lotto… You know, most people don't hit the lotto twice, right? And a lot of times athletes expedite the process of going from an accredited investor to a [mole - 39:59]. I’m like, “Hey guys, there's a lot of layers that you have to… levels that you have to go up to to become that business mogul that you're reading about” -- the Warren Buffetts, the Jay-zs, the Sean Combs, the Robert Greens -- you know, lots of these, stuff like that, to where… Like Tunde's point--

ROB 40:20
To that point, they're not even the person that I don't think… Just to interrupt you. I want to go to that point. Robert Smith is great but 99.99% of us, including athletes, aren't going to be him. But you can be in a secure position, hold cash and make sure you're financially stable. Lots of people can reach that point. But thinking that you can try to chase somebody who's a multi-billionaire is… I'm not saying you don't aspire to that but be practical.

MICHAEL
But you have to get into the mindset of an athlete.

ROB
Yeah, that's true.

MICHAEL
In my mind because I've… Somebody said, “Hey, you would never be in the field with Deion Sanders.”

ROB
That's true, yeah.

MICHAEL
Then one day I was on the field with Deion Sanders. I'm like… You know what I mean? So from my athlete’s standpoint, when they hear that, they’re like, “No. I have achieved this dream. I want to be able to achieve--“

ROB
Which make sense.
MICHAEL
Yeah.

ROB
Some of that is positive. I like it when you said it. You’re not going to hit the lottery twice, also figure out how to get there.

MICHAEL
Yeah. Therefore, I just think that you have to have [crosstalk] [inaudible - 41:19]--

ROB
Just like you have a plan to get to the league, you have to work hard. You have to train harder like everybody else.

MICHAEL
By doing the steps.

ROB
There’s a path to that.

MICHAEL
Absolutely. It was layers. So you have to have a team around you that you trust, that can walk you through each phase of your life and understand that there's going to be silos and there are going to be troughs throughout that time period that you're going to have to function through.

Back to your question early on “How do you select a financial advisor” -- just don't pick a firm or individual that has all the bells and whistles especially when things are positive. You really want to pick someone that matches and mirrors your personality traits and your investment palette not only for the short term but… Like I said, not making a 4-year decision but a 40-year decision.

ROB
Yeah. I’d say like, “Develop your relationship” -- so who advises you. And it sounds like develop other relationships to help you gain wealth. But develop the relationships first, right?

This is the opportunity at this moment right now. You can develop relationships. Seek to add value, not to just take. And I think people think you just come and you just take. No. You have to actually develop the relationships. Work with people. Get to know them. Understand them before you seek to take something from--

I tell this to people all the time, too. I've been in politics. I had to raise a lot of money when I was running. And people asked me, “This is your first time running. How did you raise all that money?” I said, “Very simply.” I said, “I spent my entire career building relationships. That's how” -- without ever asking people for things, doing stuff for them, asking. And then, generally, when it came time, it wasn't a hard sell because they’re like, “Look, we know Rob's been out there working hard, doing stuff.” And I know I can depend on them because they… I didn't ask for things before. I just did them, not seeking an immediate return.

So Tunde, did you have some points you want… I know you have some questions.

TUNDE
This is great. Nothing tad. I know we got to wrap-up. Mike, I want to thank you though. Also, just to say here, we've asked Michael to come on board with our firm and consult with us from the angle of concierge and certain services due to his experience both when he had his own practice as a certified financial planner and then his own business with Privé Society. So I don't know if you want to do a quick mention of that, Michael. But I want to thank you again for [crosstalk] [your time - 43:38].

ROB
Before you do that, I want to have a couple of questions then just get to that at the very end. Just talk about what you do and where you do it. But before you do that, I have just a couple of high-level questions I ask typical people that come on this show that I want to ask you.

If you had a billboard or Google ad that stated what you believed in your philosophy in life, what would that say and why?

MICHAEL
I would say, “Be a star, not a flashlight.” Let me get that in-depth. When you become an athlete, you have this amazing talent, right, and you would ascend through life very fast and everyone's looking at you. You're a shining object. And then your talent gets taken away one day. You get cut. You get released. You get hurt. And now no one looks at you anymore. And you're still searching for that feeling that you had when you were that shiny object.

My coach told me that when I was very young. “Look, Michael, be a star, not a flashlight.” A star shines forever and you really put into the universe and to your approach of becoming something that is of excellence, become a consistent perspective, meaning, you use your athletic talent to get you in places that your mind can carry you to become a star.

That's one of the biggest things that I, to this day, drive myself with is to say, “Michael, no matter where your talent has gotten you up to this point, figure out how you can ascend to the next level.” How can you continuously push yourself to be a star, that someone had not only created generational wealth for yourself but for your family and your community?

ROB
How do you pivot from that when you're an athlete? You're used to being in the arena, having fans scream your name then to not… So you don't have that external trigger anymore of saying, “Michael! Michael! Michael!” How do you do that when you don't hear fans screaming? You're not in the arena. You don't have that anymore -- because that's sometimes a drive to do that, too, for people.

MICHAEL
Yeah. You have to sit down and be honest with yourself. There are some amazing stories of individuals that sat down and really was honest with themselves as far as figuring out where your talents really are outside of physical. How can you become still an impact that has people still scream your name because there's still ways to have people screaming your name. Obviously, it's not 80,000-90,000 that used to but you can still have--

You look at the Michael Strahans, look at the Magic Johnsons, LeBron James -- I'm not talking about on the field -- Junior Bridgemans. You have some athletes out there that have been able to become amazingly successful -- the Michael Jordans of the world, the Kobe Bryants much earlier, where you are so talented as an athlete from a mental standpoint. You just have to sit down and tap into what those talents are. And I think that if you're able--

ROB
And if you’re not an athlete, you tap into what those talents are. Athletics is just one example of the many, right?

MICHAEL
Exactly. But if you sit down and you really become honest with yourself and figure out what your passions are, figure out where you can make immediate impact and then also tap into all the important characteristics of an athlete like hard work, dedication, sacrifice, that's the fuel that takes that jet to the next level, right? But you first have to sit down and figure out what you're passionate in and how you can make an impact in that field.

ROB
And I know we got to get ready to wrap because we have another one right after this. But I will just say this, that it's… What I think about what you said, I think it is to figure out what you're passionate about and what your skill set is, too.

MICHAEL
Absolutely.

ROB
If you can figure out where the two align… because I believe in going big there. This is an area that I don't believe in diversification. Go where your strengths and where your passion is. But you have to also be predisposed to this. If your passion is all to be an NFL player and you're 5’5”, it’s probably not going to work, right? But it doesn't mean you can't be in sports. And understand from economics then you could be an analyst for the sports. Figure out what your passion is and align it there.

And then you got to have some basic foundation. Listen, you have to do some things you don't like. If you tell me that you don't like math and you want to be rich, you're going to have a problem likely because you have to at least understand some… You don't have to be a genius but you got to understand the basics and want to do some critical analysis.

So pour in the foundation and then making sure you focus on those strengths -- the things you're passionate about and that you're predisposed to I think is the way we can go because all of us aren't going to be athletes. And even the ones that are athletes are not going to stay athletes.

There's a lot of ways to be successful out there, to break the narrative, to break down these constructs because… I want to disrupt the patterns that I'm seeing. Black wealth is generated to go to zero about 2053 according to the trends. I don't accept that.

Michael, thank you for your work and preventing that. Tunde, thank you for what you do. Tell them where they can reach out and learn more about you. We'll also put it in the notes as well. If you got, send it to me.

MICHAEL
Sure. So I’ll go first. I can be reached… Tunde mentioned it before. I'm the CEO and co-founder of a company called “Privé Society.” We're a high-end lifestyle management and concierge company that services not only high-net-worth individuals but corporations as well. We have a website, privesociety.com. Also, I am a general partner with Axial Financial Group which I’m [inaudible - 49:05] Griffin Entertainment.

ROB
Michael, I appreciate the time, brother.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]