0:00:00.083,0:00:03.416
I think I had to realize, just like,
you know, with you,

0:00:03.708,0:00:05.875
there was something pulling on my heart.
I didn't know what it was.

0:00:05.875,0:00:09.250
Again, I was I was 24 years old,

0:00:09.458,0:00:12.458
you know, maybe 20, 25, 26.

0:00:12.583,0:00:14.708
And so something pulling on my heart.

0:00:14.708,0:00:17.125
I had to get out of the studio.

0:00:17.125,0:00:21.541
I had to get out of that firm
and get into the community to find myself.

0:00:22.375,0:00:24.291
If you believe
we can change the narrative.

0:00:24.291,0:00:26.500
If you believe,
we can change our communities.

0:00:26.500,0:00:29.875
If you believe we can change the outcomes,
then we can change the world.

0:00:30.583,0:00:32.125
I'm Rob Richardson.

0:00:32.125,0:00:35.125
Welcome to Disruption Now.

0:00:35.125,0:00:36.458
Welcome, fellow disruptors.

0:00:36.458,0:00:37.291
Welcome to Disruption Now.

0:00:37.291,0:00:39.416
I'm Rob Richardson,
your host and moderator.

0:00:39.416,0:00:43.166
With me is John Johnson,
who is the founder of the Small Studio

0:00:43.500,0:00:45.375
the digital design studio,
who's going to tell you

0:00:45.375,0:00:48.458
more about some of the work he does
and some of the unique clients

0:00:48.458,0:00:52.041
that he has by this little game
you may know called Pokémon Go.

0:00:52.041,0:00:53.416
That's one of his many clients.

0:00:53.416,0:00:55.916
And, he's also just a great human being.

0:00:55.916,0:00:58.208
It's great to have him on the show.
How are you doing, John?

0:00:58.208,0:00:58.750
Good, brother.

0:00:58.750,0:01:00.625
I'm good. Just happy to be here.

0:01:00.625,0:01:02.500
Yeah, well,
you know, we're happy to have you.

0:01:02.500,0:01:04.583
So you have been a founder.

0:01:04.583,0:01:09.333
You've been in this, this journey that's
a never ending process in self-discovery.

0:01:09.333,0:01:10.208
For how long now?

0:01:12.958,0:01:14.583
what?
My career.

0:01:14.583,0:01:15.666
You've been. It's been your whole career.

0:01:15.666,0:01:17.333
You've been a founder.

0:01:17.333,0:01:20.416
well, no, I, I practice architecture
for about two years.

0:01:20.666,0:01:23.916
after I got out of school,
got a master's in architecture, my MBA,

0:01:24.250,0:01:28.208
and then two years
in practicing architecture, I realized

0:01:28.708,0:01:33.166
that I was an entrepreneur, and
I needed to go out and create something.

0:01:33.166,0:01:37.000
So that was about, I think, 2016.

0:01:37.666,0:01:39.583
Yeah, yeah. 2016.

0:01:39.583,0:01:43.000
then,
I got married to my wife, and yeah. That

0:01:44.166,0:01:45.375
what what sparked that?

0:01:45.375,0:01:49.833
Like what sparked your what made you say,
I have, I'm going to be an entrepreneur.

0:01:49.833,0:01:51.333
This is just what I have to do.

0:01:51.333,0:01:53.500
Was there a moment? Was there.

0:01:53.500,0:01:58.208
Was there some crisis that came up
that said, okay, I need to change?

0:01:58.208,0:01:59.333
Like what happened?

0:02:02.125,0:02:02.958
that's a great question.

0:02:02.958,0:02:07.583
I think for me getting my MBA
at the same time

0:02:07.583,0:02:11.375
as my master's in architecture
helped me open my eyes.

0:02:11.375,0:02:15.416
In the industry of architecture,
you know, majority of people

0:02:15.416,0:02:18.416
that get their degrees and specialize
feels like that.

0:02:18.625,0:02:20.916
They only focus on their field.

0:02:20.916,0:02:23.958
And when I got my MBA at the same time,
it started to teach me

0:02:23.958,0:02:27.125
a little bit more about the industry
and about the possibilities.

0:02:27.125,0:02:32.291
And I was able to, almost think
differently than a lot of my colleagues.

0:02:32.291,0:02:35.791
So I went to this architecture
firm in Phoenix, Arizona.

0:02:35.791,0:02:39.791
And, one of the first questions
they asked me in my interview was,

0:02:40.500,0:02:43.041
what is the future of architecture
look like for you?

0:02:43.041,0:02:46.041
And I said,
I said, architecture are commodity.

0:02:46.291,0:02:49.291
And I said, architects need to start
taking ownership in their work.

0:02:49.458,0:02:50.750
Right? In the, the,

0:02:50.750,0:02:53.041
the projects that they're doing,
the buildings that they're creating.

0:02:53.041,0:02:54.541
So they continue to create

0:02:54.541,0:02:57.541
and generate revenue
from the success of those buildings.

0:02:57.916,0:03:01.500
And I think that that interview helped me
realize and showed me that

0:03:01.500,0:03:05.291
I thought a little differently
than a lot of my colleagues.

0:03:05.291,0:03:08.583
And, two years into it, I studied,

0:03:08.583,0:03:13.291
I learned underneath other architects
the principles of that firm

0:03:13.291,0:03:17.041
and honestly, I looked at the principles
and I realized that wasn't me.

0:03:17.416,0:03:18.958
I didn't want to be them.

0:03:18.958,0:03:22.833
I didn't want to go down
this path of architecture.

0:03:22.833,0:03:26.166
so, I mean, I had to come,

0:03:26.208,0:03:29.208
come to Jesus moment and I quit,

0:03:29.291,0:03:33.000
you know, and then, shortly after that,
I, I launched

0:03:33.000,0:03:36.708
my first startup and, and fell in love
with entrepreneurship from there.

0:03:37.791,0:03:41.000
Yeah.
So, I have a similar story with law.

0:03:41.000,0:03:44.000
Like, I worked at a firm,

0:03:44.000,0:03:48.875
and, and I saw the partners, and I'm like,
this looks miserable.

0:03:49.458,0:03:51.125
Like, I don't want to do this.

0:03:51.125,0:03:54.958
They look, they have more money,
but they look even more miserable

0:03:54.958,0:03:55.958
than their associates.

0:03:55.958,0:03:58.583
like this.
Just doesn't feel right. Like, why?

0:03:58.583,0:04:02.000
So I'm aspiring to be like that
in 15 years.

0:04:02.000,0:04:03.000
Like now.

0:04:03.000,0:04:05.166
Like I passed like it was like.

0:04:05.166,0:04:06.083
Yeah, it definitely was it.

0:04:06.083,0:04:06.875
I get that right.

0:04:06.875,0:04:10.375
That defined path
maybe provide some comfort.

0:04:10.375,0:04:14.375
But at the same time, if you don't like
what you're doing, I mean, I just remember

0:04:14.375,0:04:17.708
going into the building to have
this sneaky feel like I do not like this.

0:04:17.708,0:04:20.166
Like I get that, I really do.

0:04:20.166,0:04:23.125
I don't want to say that they
were miserable like that.

0:04:24.166,0:04:24.750
I'm not I'm.

0:04:24.750,0:04:25.291
Not saying that.

0:04:25.291,0:04:27.875
I'm not saying they, well, they
they didn't see me.

0:04:27.875,0:04:30.791
As I said, I'm like,
yeah, I know, see me miserable.

0:04:30.791,0:04:32.625
I have no job. I have no clue to that.

0:04:32.625,0:04:34.791
No, I and that's and that's, that's,
that's the,

0:04:34.791,0:04:36.750
the different professions
in a different firms.

0:04:36.750,0:04:37.000
Right.

0:04:37.000,0:04:41.208
Honestly, like the firm that I worked for,
it was, is an incredible firm

0:04:41.208,0:04:43.916
and the principles
are some of the best in the field.

0:04:43.916,0:04:47.250
They were doing some incredible projects
and the work was incredible.

0:04:47.250,0:04:49.833
And I loved architecture. Right.

0:04:49.833,0:04:53.875
But I, I think I had to realize,
just like, you know, with you,

0:04:54.166,0:04:56.333
there was something pulling on my heart.
I didn't know what it was.

0:04:56.333,0:04:59.708
Again, I was 24 years old,

0:04:59.916,0:05:02.916
you know, maybe 20, 25, 26.

0:05:03.041,0:05:05.166
And so something pulling on my heart.

0:05:05.166,0:05:07.583
I had to get out of the studio.

0:05:07.583,0:05:12.000
I had to get out of that firm
and get into the community to find myself.

0:05:12.583,0:05:12.958
Right.

0:05:12.958,0:05:17.916
And I spent the next five years
really finding myself until I've,

0:05:17.958,0:05:20.916
you know,
finally landed at a small studio.

0:05:20.916,0:05:22.208
Yeah.
So what surprised

0:05:22.208,0:05:25.541
you most about starting your starting
starting your entrepreneurial journey?

0:05:26.125,0:05:27.958
What surprised me the most?

0:05:27.958,0:05:29.166
Yep. What surprised you the most?

0:05:31.625,0:05:34.625
That's a great question
too, man.

0:05:36.875,0:05:38.791
you know, there's this

0:05:38.791,0:05:41.791
there's this constant battle

0:05:42.416,0:05:44.583
in my head. In my heart.

0:05:44.583,0:05:44.791
Right?

0:05:44.791,0:05:49.000
Every single day
that I've realized over the years that I'm

0:05:49.000,0:05:52.000
the only person
that can fight that battle.

0:05:53.166,0:05:56.208
nobody else
knows what you're going through.

0:05:56.250,0:06:00.583
Nobody else knows
all of the things that you think

0:06:00.583,0:06:05.541
about on a daily, minute by minute,
second by second basis.

0:06:05.541,0:06:07.041
You know, my wife doesn't know.

0:06:07.041,0:06:10.708
My kids don't know,
my partners don't know.

0:06:11.375,0:06:14.375
And I think that battle.

0:06:15.000,0:06:18.541
Was very,
very heavy at the beginning for me,

0:06:18.791,0:06:22.208
because,
you know, you're fighting a lot of doubt

0:06:22.208,0:06:25.875
and self-doubt and insecurities,
and you never done it before.

0:06:25.875,0:06:27.500
I never did it before.

0:06:27.500,0:06:29.500
I'm like, I can do this.

0:06:29.500,0:06:31.625
Maybe I can, you know, I could do this.

0:06:31.625,0:06:33.916
Yeah, I get that. And, I did that.

0:06:33.916,0:06:37.500
And over the years,
I, I started to develop more of a faith.

0:06:37.916,0:06:38.208
Right.

0:06:38.208,0:06:41.375
And I started to develop
more of a relationship with God.

0:06:41.375,0:06:42.708
And and I did have a fight.

0:06:42.708,0:06:45.708
Those battles anymore by myself,

0:06:45.750,0:06:49.208
you know, and I was able to share them
with this partner

0:06:49.208,0:06:53.000
that walks with me every single day
and was in my head and was in my heart,

0:06:53.041,0:06:57.000
you know, and that that really lighten
things up for me, you know?

0:06:57.250,0:06:59.208
and it allows me to walk a little lighter.

0:06:59.208,0:07:02.875
Now, as an entrepreneur for,
you know, ten plus years.

0:07:03.958,0:07:04.958
Yeah, it is,

0:07:04.958,0:07:08.125
and I'm sure you go through moments,
even with your faith

0:07:08.708,0:07:11.958
that where you go through your ups
and downs because it's challenging, right?

0:07:11.958,0:07:14.958
When you're
we are the principal and you're the owner.

0:07:15.166,0:07:18.083
I think there's a lot of glorification
of the process.

0:07:18.083,0:07:19.833
Most of it is a lot of doubt.

0:07:19.833,0:07:21.875
And the problem
is also a lot of rejection.

0:07:21.875,0:07:23.625
So you have to have that faith,

0:07:23.625,0:07:26.166
you know, that you're going to make it,
that you're going

0:07:26.166,0:07:29.291
to find a way that you're going to pivot
because it's mostly no's.

0:07:29.291,0:07:33.750
Like it's not like a it's not like a
it doesn't generally open right up.

0:07:33.750,0:07:34.958
And it usually takes time.

0:07:34.958,0:07:36.958
A whole lot of time.
More time than you thinking.

0:07:36.958,0:07:39.333
And it is it is a constant journey.

0:07:39.333,0:07:42.166
Like I, I understand
and completely understand your path.

0:07:42.166,0:07:44.833
But again, you know,
I'm also on your path, so I understand it.

0:07:44.833,0:07:46.958
Yeah.

0:07:46.958,0:07:48.916
If you can go back to your younger
self. Right.

0:07:48.916,0:07:51.958
So when you maybe when you first
started in this, in this journey

0:07:51.958,0:07:56.416
or at really any point in your business
or your personal life, what advice

0:07:56.416,0:08:00.250
would you give your younger self
and then what advice would you ignore?

0:08:08.500,0:08:11.250
You know, I remember

0:08:11.250,0:08:15.125
a moment when I was younger,
when I decided to become an architect,

0:08:15.375,0:08:18.375
I decided to go to architecture school,
and I had so many people,

0:08:18.833,0:08:22.750
tell me that I shouldn't do that

0:08:23.291,0:08:26.500
because especially like it was,
there was a lot of people,

0:08:26.500,0:08:29.791
in the black community
that that were telling me that I shouldn't

0:08:29.791,0:08:33.541
do it because they didn't know
or see how many black architects.

0:08:34.291,0:08:35.250
Right.

0:08:35.250,0:08:38.583
And I wish that

0:08:39.416,0:08:41.708
somebody would have told me about what
I just shared.

0:08:41.708,0:08:45.083
Like how,
you know, when you're called on a path

0:08:45.458,0:08:48.333
that, like,
you feel in your heart and convicted,

0:08:48.333,0:08:51.333
typically you're going to be the only,

0:08:51.833,0:08:54.791
you know, like, typically
you're not going to see a lot of people

0:08:54.791,0:08:58.833
like you or me, anyone like you,
sometimes around you because you're being

0:08:58.833,0:09:02.791
called to do something
that nobody's ever done before, you know?

0:09:02.791,0:09:07.083
And I just wish
there was somebody in my life,

0:09:07.083,0:09:10.875
and even specifically like a man
that told me that

0:09:11.500,0:09:16.125
because I one of have been so surprised
every time I ended up in a situation

0:09:16.125,0:09:19.875
where I was the only right,
whether only man,

0:09:19.875,0:09:22.833
whether it was only black man,
whether it was the, the,

0:09:22.833,0:09:28.166
the youngest in the room or the,
the only one that's never practiced

0:09:28.166,0:09:31.708
this before, done this before,
you know, whatever it was.

0:09:33.666,0:09:34.375
that that's

0:09:34.375,0:09:37.375
probably that's one of the hardest parts
of the journey is.

0:09:37.375,0:09:38.166
Yeah.

0:09:38.166,0:09:41.541
You know, not really having
a lot of people like you around you.

0:09:41.708,0:09:47.541
Yes. It's, so I think that that's
what I wish somebody would have told me,

0:09:47.541,0:09:51.041
because it would have allowed me
to approach those things with so much,

0:09:52.458,0:09:55.458
strength, you know?

0:09:55.625,0:09:56.708
Well, then kind of

0:09:56.708,0:10:02.666
get it punched in the face
every time I end up in a situation. and

0:10:03.875,0:10:04.875
what was the other question?

0:10:04.875,0:10:06.458
What piece? what.

0:10:06.458,0:10:09.458
What what advice
would you ignore to your younger self?

0:10:13.500,0:10:17.541
I. you kind of answered it, I didn't.

0:10:17.833,0:10:19.833
Yeah, yeah, I think it goes hand in hand.

0:10:19.833,0:10:21.625
You really kind of did answer it there.

0:10:21.625,0:10:25.958
I mean, it's
it is tough being like the only one people

0:10:26.583,0:10:29.791
because I don't have any like pride in
that when you're like the only one, it's

0:10:29.791,0:10:32.916
like you want to see more,
but it is what it is.

0:10:32.916,0:10:33.708
And dealing with that

0:10:33.708,0:10:36.958
and having people to talk to
is really kind of difficult, like people,

0:10:37.000,0:10:37.791
unless you've been there.

0:10:37.791,0:10:41.250
Like it's it's really difficult
to really figure out how to navigate that.

0:10:41.250,0:10:45.541
How do you navigate that now, to this day,
when you're in the room and you know,

0:10:46.083,0:10:49.666
you're the only brother in the room,
which I'm sure still happens a lot, right?

0:10:50.000,0:10:51.333
How do you deal with that?

0:10:51.333,0:10:54.375
Sometimes the pressure, like what's your

0:10:54.708,0:10:57.541
if you even view it as pressure,
how do you how do you deal with this.

0:10:57.541,0:11:00.916
It'll before earlier
I was very conscious of it.

0:11:01.375,0:11:04.750
It almost stood out viscerally
and it distracted me a little.

0:11:04.958,0:11:05.708
sure.

0:11:07.041,0:11:07.916
Almost to the point

0:11:07.916,0:11:11.041
of insecurity
and and maybe even sometimes fear.

0:11:11.791,0:11:12.000
Right.

0:11:12.000,0:11:16.625
But now I think at this stage
of my career, I barely acknowledge it,

0:11:16.833,0:11:17.791
but I barely notice.

0:11:17.791,0:11:20.666
It doesn't need to become normal.

0:11:20.666,0:11:24.125
It's become it's become like,
you know, they always say that

0:11:24.125,0:11:27.125
saying, you know,
get comfortable being uncomfortable.

0:11:27.291,0:11:31.291
And I think I'm at that point in my career
where I'm very comfortable

0:11:31.291,0:11:32.583
being uncomfortable.

0:11:32.583,0:11:37.291
especially sometimes when, you know,
I may be one of the only people

0:11:37.291,0:11:41.125
that has a certain, background
or from a certain place

0:11:41.125,0:11:44.125
like Cleveland,
go into the West Coast, right.

0:11:44.666,0:11:47.208
it's it's it's become common.

0:11:47.208,0:11:51.666
And and I think the way I handle it,
I always go back to my faith.

0:11:51.666,0:11:54.333
A, you know, I journal a lot.

0:11:54.333,0:11:55.708
I pray a lot.

0:11:55.708,0:11:58.791
I try to get even started

0:11:58.791,0:12:02.250
a practice of, of
of affirmation and visualization

0:12:02.541,0:12:05.916
where I now like to visualize myself
in those moments.

0:12:06.750,0:12:07.791
How do you go about that in your head?

0:12:07.791,0:12:08.250
I'm curious.

0:12:08.250,0:12:10.083
Like, what does that
what does that habit and routine

0:12:10.083,0:12:12.750
look like for your affirmation
in your visualization?

0:12:12.750,0:12:16.500
Like, how would you advise someone
to be more intentional about doing that?

0:12:16.708,0:12:17.541
I'm curious about.

0:12:17.541,0:12:21.875
There's a there's a great book
that brought it all together for me.

0:12:21.875,0:12:24.875
It's called the, Miracle Morning.

0:12:24.916,0:12:25.375
okay.

0:12:25.375,0:12:26.791
I'll forget the author's name.

0:12:26.791,0:12:28.750
It's called the Miracle Morning. And

0:12:29.708,0:12:30.500
it's a really

0:12:30.500,0:12:33.541
it simplifies it because I think that
that's my biggest advice.

0:12:33.541,0:12:35.916
Anybody is like,
just keep it simple. Make it simple.

0:12:35.916,0:12:37.875
Don't try to overcomplicate it
too much. Right.

0:12:37.875,0:12:41.125
So he simplified it to a point
where he said every morning

0:12:41.750,0:12:46.166
for 60 minutes go through, a ritual.

0:12:46.291,0:12:50.458
Right, this ritual was, you know, silence

0:12:50.875,0:12:55.833
for ten minutes, affirmations
for five, visualization for five.

0:12:56.166,0:12:59.625
You know, exercise,
reading and scribing or writing.

0:13:00.083,0:13:02.000
Right? I was already reading.
I was already writing.

0:13:02.000,0:13:03.625
I was already exercising.

0:13:03.625,0:13:05.125
I was already doing silence.

0:13:05.125,0:13:07.083
Right. and prayer.

0:13:07.083,0:13:11.166
but that that affirmation visualization
always has been kind of

0:13:11.166,0:13:13.500
out of reach for me. Right?

0:13:13.500,0:13:16.125
But all I did was take,
you know, five minutes.

0:13:16.125,0:13:19.833
I have my peloton app,
I put a meditation on, do

0:13:19.833,0:13:23.708
five minutes of meditation, and then right
after that, I go into my affirmations.

0:13:23.708,0:13:26.708
And my affirmations are almost sometimes
very simple, like,

0:13:27.458,0:13:29.791
you know,
thank you for making me a father.

0:13:29.791,0:13:31.666
Thank you for making me a husband.

0:13:31.666,0:13:33.500
Thank you for making me a leader.

0:13:33.500,0:13:34.958
Thank you for making me an identity

0:13:34.958,0:13:39.041
architect, you know,
and or I am an identity architect.

0:13:39.041,0:13:40.166
I am a father.

0:13:40.166,0:13:41.083
I am a son.

0:13:41.083,0:13:44.000
You know these really simple affirmations.

0:13:44.000,0:13:48.416
And I love that
because it allows me to identify

0:13:48.416,0:13:51.541
with the words that matter the most to me
know, prioritize those.

0:13:51.541,0:13:55.541
Because as you go about your day,
you start to get attached to certain words

0:13:55.541,0:13:58.583
and people start to prescribe
words to you, and you get filled

0:13:58.583,0:14:03.208
with all the clutter of social media
and interviews and so on and so forth.

0:14:03.208,0:14:03.875
Right?

0:14:03.875,0:14:08.500
And then right after that, I go through
pretty much my schedule for the day,

0:14:08.833,0:14:11.958
and I visualize each experience
from the drive

0:14:12.000,0:14:15.125
to a meeting to this podcast, right? To,

0:14:16.500,0:14:19.833
the meeting
that I'm going to have or a conversation

0:14:19.833,0:14:22.833
I have with an employee or a client
or whatever it is.

0:14:22.833,0:14:27.625
And I just take a moment to think about it
and, you know, have the perfect it.

0:14:27.666,0:14:29.833
Whether it's a practice,

0:14:29.833,0:14:33.250
right, and whether it's 5 minutes
or 10 minutes, it's very simple.

0:14:33.250,0:14:34.625
And he breaks it down in the book

0:14:34.625,0:14:38.500
and he simplifies it very well,
because you can do that for a minute.

0:14:38.958,0:14:39.958
And just for a minute.

0:14:39.958,0:14:42.458
That will be better
than not doing it at all,

0:14:42.458,0:14:46.166
because it will prepare you
for those moments that you'll end up,

0:14:46.250,0:14:47.916
coming across.

0:14:47.916,0:14:50.541
When you talk about being a disruptor,
right?

0:14:50.541,0:14:51.875
Like. Right.

0:14:51.875,0:14:55.250
If you're going to disrupt something,
you better be prepared, right,

0:14:55.250,0:14:59.958
for those moments, because disruption
comes with a lot of battles and a lot of.

0:14:59.958,0:15:01.500
It does it does.

0:15:01.500,0:15:04.666
You I mean, so that's that's
how it's that's how it's helped me a lot.

0:15:05.375,0:15:07.541
No, I'm that's, that's that's really good.

0:15:07.541,0:15:10.750
You know, my mother always told me
you got to just tell you

0:15:11.083,0:15:13.750
tell yourself the truth in the morning
because the world just fills

0:15:13.750,0:15:15.291
you with lies every day. Right.

0:15:15.291,0:15:19.125
So everything we're looking for
is within ourselves.

0:15:19.125,0:15:21.166
But we have to remind
ourselves. I love that.

0:15:22.208,0:15:24.541
We really,
really, like, have a great mother.

0:15:24.541,0:15:29.791
But it's important to keep remembering
these lessons because they, like the most.

0:15:29.875,0:15:32.500
Simple lessons are also the most profound.

0:15:32.500,0:15:33.958
Like this.

0:15:33.958,0:15:37.291
Like you said, keeping it simple is how
you actually make your life better.

0:15:37.625,0:15:40.375
It's just going back to those basics
and that was really helpful for me.

0:15:40.375,0:15:40.875
So thank you.

0:15:40.875,0:15:42.750
And I'm sure it's going to be helpful
for those who are

0:15:42.750,0:15:44.250
who are listening,
looking for better ways.

0:15:44.250,0:15:45.000
Because, you know,

0:15:45.000,0:15:47.708
when people think about like manifestation
and visualization,

0:15:47.708,0:15:50.708
I think people say like, well,
of course I want to be great, but

0:15:50.708,0:15:53.708
and I want to visualize things,
but being intentional about how you do

0:15:53.708,0:15:55.250
that is how you actually get there.

0:15:55.250,0:15:58.416
I mean, I think that's and you really help
teach me another habit

0:15:58.416,0:16:01.041
that I need to put into my routine,
like to be more intentional about that.

0:16:01.041,0:16:02.666
So I really appreciate that, you know,

0:16:03.875,0:16:06.416
now, you came from like, Cleveland West.

0:16:06.416,0:16:08.291
You did.
You grew up in the east of Cleveland.

0:16:08.291,0:16:10.041
Is that right? West side of Cleveland?

0:16:10.041,0:16:11.708
I did spend time on the east side.

0:16:11.708,0:16:13.000
I went to school,

0:16:13.000,0:16:16.000
high school on the East side,
but grew up on the West Side.

0:16:16.500,0:16:16.750
All right.

0:16:16.750,0:16:19.666
But it's a it was it was
it was a difficult path, right.

0:16:19.666,0:16:22.083
To be, east side of Cleveland.
And what's up, man?

0:16:22.083,0:16:23.791
I don't know much,
but I know the east side of Cleveland's

0:16:23.791,0:16:27.416
pretty notorious,
but it's, still is, but, like 99.

0:16:27.458,0:16:30.250
Tell me. Yeah.

0:16:30.250,0:16:31.750
How did that shape your experience?

0:16:31.750,0:16:35.416
You you know, you came from a background
you talked about a little bit,

0:16:35.958,0:16:38.583
that, you know, it's
not just being a person of color.

0:16:38.583,0:16:41.625
You came from a place that's
very difficult to rise out of, period.

0:16:41.625,0:16:42.916
Like, it's,

0:16:42.916,0:16:44.916
you know, not that we go by statistics,
but you look at it,

0:16:44.916,0:16:46.625
a lot of people have trouble
rising out of that.

0:16:46.625,0:16:49.625
Like,
what did you gain from that experience

0:16:49.625,0:16:53.416
and how does that shape
who you are today as an entrepreneur?

0:16:57.666,0:17:00.416
well, you know, I grew up on West
69th in Detroit.

0:17:00.416,0:17:05.500
during a really,
really tough time for the city.

0:17:05.500,0:17:08.500
I mean, this is the 90s, right?

0:17:08.541,0:17:12.666
probably one of the poorest times,
you know, even even to today.

0:17:12.666,0:17:16.291
Maybe, where, you know,

0:17:17.625,0:17:19.416
it was a lot of poverty. I grew up.

0:17:19.416,0:17:23.416
I never knew my father raised by a single
mother, had three siblings.

0:17:24.791,0:17:28.000
you know, they
they did their best with me.

0:17:28.000,0:17:31.000
I was the youngest by, like, seven years.

0:17:31.666,0:17:34.500
and we grew up in this, like,
very Italian neighborhood

0:17:34.500,0:17:35.708
on the west side of Cleveland.

0:17:35.708,0:17:37.750
That where they would paint
the Italian flag

0:17:37.750,0:17:41.583
on the fire, fire hydrants and the poles
and all that.

0:17:41.583,0:17:44.416
And, a lot of them were my friends,
the kids that grew up.

0:17:44.416,0:17:46.625
We played outside all the time, you know.

0:17:46.625,0:17:49.333
but I, you know, one of the,

0:17:49.333,0:17:53.583
the moments that, shaped me was,
you know, when my, my brother

0:17:53.583,0:17:57.083
went to prison when he was 17 years old,
I was about ten.

0:17:57.541,0:17:58.000
Right.

0:17:58.000,0:18:02.791
and he ended up, you know,
getting in a fight with a guy. And.

0:18:03.083,0:18:05.083
And so it was all we were so.

0:18:05.083,0:18:07.291
So repeat that you said one of the moments
that you froze for a

0:18:07.291,0:18:09.916
one of the moments that shaped
you. Was your brother in this go there?

0:18:09.916,0:18:10.291
Yeah.

0:18:10.291,0:18:14.000
One of the moments that shaped me
was my brother, you know, going to prison.

0:18:14.291,0:18:18.000
and he was 17 years old, right.

0:18:18.000,0:18:21.750
and I was ten, and. Wow.

0:18:22.166,0:18:25.583
So I, I remember the moment,
you know, helicopter

0:18:25.583,0:18:29.708
showed up in my house and the police
stormed the house and so on and so forth.

0:18:29.708,0:18:33.500
And, you know, I was young, so I didn't
I didn't really know the magnitude of it.

0:18:33.875,0:18:38.083
However, what
what was so important about that for me

0:18:38.416,0:18:42.625
was it showed me
the path that I could end up going down.

0:18:42.625,0:18:45.666
And odds are that
I would end up going down that path.

0:18:46.000,0:18:46.500
Right.

0:18:46.500,0:18:49.958
because, you know, everybody
I think knows the statistics

0:18:50.208,0:18:52.750
about being a black man in America. Right.

0:18:52.750,0:18:55.541
and how often we end up in prison.

0:18:55.541,0:18:59.750
so doing that and seeing that helped.

0:19:00.125,0:19:04.750
I think me and my sisters realized that

0:19:05.166,0:19:08.166
if we don't get it together,

0:19:08.166,0:19:10.833
everything's going to I'm going
to end up in prison, right?

0:19:10.833,0:19:12.416
Just like my brother.

0:19:12.416,0:19:16.083
So long story short,
they sent me to private school.

0:19:16.208,0:19:20.208
they really made sure I stayed out
of trouble as much as possible.

0:19:21.125,0:19:22.916
sent me to Benedictine High School.

0:19:22.916,0:19:26.666
they really
they really stepped up to make sure

0:19:26.666,0:19:29.041
that I didn't
just end up a statistic. Right.

0:19:29.041,0:19:31.958
right. going to Benedictine High School.

0:19:31.958,0:19:36.541
I think I owe it to them being,
you know, all boys Catholic

0:19:36.541,0:19:40.541
private school is the reason, probably why
I got into architecture school,

0:19:40.541,0:19:41.750
at Kent State.

0:19:41.750,0:19:46.083
And, you know, then from there,
I got my master's in architecture, my MBA.

0:19:46.541,0:19:50.708
And I think that that big thing in my head
was, John,

0:19:50.708,0:19:55.416
you if you don't execute
and if you don't do what

0:19:55.416,0:19:58.833
your you need to do,
you're going to end up in the streets.

0:19:59.333,0:20:00.000
All right. Yeah.

0:20:00.000,0:20:03.000
You're going to end up, in prison.

0:20:03.125,0:20:06.125
And I had this person,

0:20:06.166,0:20:08.916
my brother that was there, and I,

0:20:08.916,0:20:11.500
I don't know how I don't talk to people
a lot about that.

0:20:11.500,0:20:15.250
Don't know how often people use
that as an example of change.

0:20:15.750,0:20:16.833
Right, right.

0:20:16.833,0:20:18.791
But it was it was visceral for me.

0:20:18.791,0:20:20.375
And I look at that all the time.

0:20:20.375,0:20:25.333
And that's that's really, truly my memory
of Cleveland because I left after college

0:20:25.333,0:20:30.708
for ten years, and I just now came back
two and a half years ago with my wife.

0:20:30.708,0:20:34.958
And, you know, now I have a child
and I live, I live here full time.

0:20:35.541,0:20:40.083
But my memory was, you know, child
John growing up in Cleveland

0:20:40.125,0:20:44.000
and the violence and the gangs
and the prison and, you know,

0:20:44.000,0:20:46.416
just the poverty and all of that. Right.

0:20:46.416,0:20:51.416
but coming back, I think there's a whole
new perspective of what Cleveland can be.

0:20:51.416,0:20:56.083
My brother was just released,
after 24 years, last year.

0:20:56.333,0:20:59.916
he's now, you know, out and, and,

0:20:59.958,0:21:05.750
you know, in an apprenticeship, right to,
to get, you know, become a laborer and,

0:21:05.750,0:21:08.916
and become a part of a union
right in his on his great and

0:21:09.208,0:21:13.750
and he's, he's he's going,
I come back with a lot more hope,

0:21:14.250,0:21:18.208
I guess, than I did when I was a child,
which was part of the reason

0:21:18.208,0:21:21.958
why I left, you know, I'm like,
yeah, I'll see you later, Cleveland.

0:21:21.958,0:21:24.541
I gave two weeks notice, and I left.

0:21:24.541,0:21:29.583
I'm so glad that I did,
because it allowed me to find myself

0:21:29.583,0:21:33.250
outside of Cleveland,
you know, and outside of the childhood

0:21:33.250,0:21:36.250
that I had and, outside of my family.

0:21:36.666,0:21:37.041
Right.

0:21:37.041,0:21:41.000
But find John, who I am as a person,
as a as a man.

0:21:41.083,0:21:44.375
and I was able to do that
in Phoenix and Seattle and

0:21:44.708,0:21:47.875
and now bring the new man
that I am back to Cleveland

0:21:47.875,0:21:50.875
and hopefully be able to help
as many people as I can.

0:21:51.500,0:21:52.958
Know that's wonderful.

0:21:55.083,0:21:57.625
let's, let's talk a little bit
about your professional.

0:21:57.625,0:21:59.083
And then I want to go back
to some personal things.

0:21:59.083,0:22:04.083
So you've you were an architect and
then you've started a digital design firm.

0:22:04.333,0:22:06.750
Yeah. How did how did you find yourself?

0:22:06.750,0:22:09.750
How did you combine architecture with

0:22:10.416,0:22:12.250
starting a digital design agency?

0:22:12.250,0:22:14.708
or firm
like I don't normally see that connection.

0:22:14.708,0:22:19.041
So tell us about how those connecting
from you know, your experience.

0:22:19.208,0:22:20.000
Yeah.

0:22:20.000,0:22:22.500
Well it's actually happening
a lot more now.

0:22:22.500,0:22:26.750
as the industry shifts and digital design
is becoming more and more,

0:22:26.750,0:22:31.500
I guess, there's more demand for it.

0:22:31.750,0:22:32.333
Yes. Right.

0:22:32.333,0:22:35.625
and those craft, those,
those legacy crafts like architecture

0:22:35.625,0:22:37.041
and drafting, right.

0:22:37.041,0:22:40.666
In 3D modeling, then I don't
I don't know, the

0:22:41.041,0:22:44.375
people are starting to find themselves
in this digital space.

0:22:44.375,0:22:48.166
But, for me, you know,
I just shared about how I left,

0:22:48.166,0:22:53.125
right after I left, I got into, started a mobile app startup called Feel Free,

0:22:53.500,0:22:54.458
which was an app. Okay.

0:22:54.458,0:22:58.416
When you walk into a space,
you're automatically checked in there

0:22:58.416,0:23:01.291
and you see a list of all the,
the people that were there.

0:23:01.291,0:23:04.208
An idea was to create more organic, face
to face connections

0:23:04.208,0:23:06.000
in the built environment. Right.

0:23:06.000,0:23:10.916
So it was actually a nice little step
from architecture into digital.

0:23:10.958,0:23:11.333
Right.

0:23:11.333,0:23:14.500
And that that technology startup,

0:23:14.500,0:23:19.000
spent the next two years trying to build
that, you know, we, we built a whole

0:23:19.000,0:23:22.125
mobile app,
we built a brand, we built a following,

0:23:22.250,0:23:26.625
and we ultimately failed

0:23:27.041,0:23:30.875
via just,
the relationship me and my partner had.

0:23:31.208,0:23:31.625
Right.

0:23:31.625,0:23:36.125
And we just we fell out in, in that moment
and it was I think it was a lot of,

0:23:36.125,0:23:40.416
you know, immaturity,
a lot of young, you know, just naivete.

0:23:40.625,0:23:43.583
it was you were just young and, right.

0:23:43.583,0:23:45.958
But I learned so much
through that experience.

0:23:45.958,0:23:47.583
I learned how to build a brand.

0:23:47.583,0:23:50.250
I learned how to design
a mobile application.

0:23:50.250,0:23:53.291
I learned how to, you know,
build a movement of people

0:23:53.625,0:23:57.541
right around a course that we cared about,
which was these ideas of talking

0:23:57.541,0:24:01.333
to each other in the built environment,
which is probably needed today.

0:24:01.333,0:24:02.833
Even it's even more important now.

0:24:04.166,0:24:06.291
So. So we learned so much.

0:24:06.291,0:24:10.458
And then what I realized through
that experience was how much I loved

0:24:10.458,0:24:14.375
building things
and how much I love starting things and

0:24:14.375,0:24:17.375
and specifically
how much I loved helping people start.

0:24:17.375,0:24:22.291
So then I ended up in a,
a company called C Spot in Phoenix called,

0:24:22.291,0:24:27.750
that was a specifically a impact
driven, incubator.

0:24:28.083,0:24:28.333
Right.

0:24:28.333,0:24:32.250
So they accelerated
and incubated impact

0:24:32.250,0:24:34.208
driven entrepreneurs to launch their ideas

0:24:34.208,0:24:36.041
and build their ideas
and push them out to the world.

0:24:36.041,0:24:37.833
So they were actually a nonprofit.

0:24:37.833,0:24:41.541
So I got a lot of experience
working with early stage entrepreneurs,

0:24:41.541,0:24:44.833
specifically impact driven entrepreneurs,
helping them,

0:24:46.083,0:24:48.333
you know, figure out their idea,
helping them

0:24:48.333,0:24:51.833
understand their idea, helping them
figure out how it fits in the marketplace,

0:24:51.875,0:24:54.875
how to launch it, and so on and so forth,
and how to speak about it.

0:24:55.625,0:24:58.500
And it just continued to fan
that flame inside of me

0:24:58.500,0:25:03.958
of how much I loved helping people
launch their brands and build brands.

0:25:04.666,0:25:07.166
So, long story short,

0:25:07.166,0:25:11.708
I ended up moving to Seattle
with my wife, who got a job at Amazon,

0:25:12.250,0:25:15.833
and my business partner, Choi,
was living there,

0:25:16.041,0:25:19.708
and we decided to start
a small studio together,

0:25:19.750,0:25:22.750
which when we started,
was all about branding and helping,

0:25:23.250,0:25:26.916
you know, these impact
driven companies understand

0:25:26.916,0:25:29.916
who they are and build their brand
and launch it out to the world.

0:25:30.125,0:25:30.458
Yeah.

0:25:30.458,0:25:34.541
I ended up extrapolating into web design
and product design, mobile

0:25:34.541,0:25:35.791
web design, right.

0:25:35.791,0:25:38.791
everything and naming.

0:25:39.208,0:25:42.791
And as, as this was happening,

0:25:43.416,0:25:47.791
I started to realize where my gifts
really lied, right?

0:25:47.916,0:25:51.458
Where we're helping
people, helping founders, helping leaders,

0:25:52.708,0:25:53.625
truly,

0:25:53.625,0:25:56.750
like, reflect on who they are
as an individual

0:25:57.500,0:26:02.333
and almost extracting that individuality,
that personality, those experiences.

0:26:02.333,0:26:04.750
A lot of the experiences
that I just shared with you.

0:26:04.750,0:26:06.041
Right, right. Right.

0:26:06.041,0:26:06.916
Myself.

0:26:06.916,0:26:10.791
Extracting those
and translating those into the marketplace

0:26:11.458,0:26:14.458
powerfully so they can stand out
amongst all the clutter.

0:26:14.958,0:26:15.625
Right? Right.

0:26:15.625,0:26:17.791
They can do something, they can

0:26:17.791,0:26:21.166
they can build something that's unique
and authentic to who they were.

0:26:21.583,0:26:24.625
And that's how identity
architecture came to be.

0:26:24.625,0:26:28.416
I knew this was so much more
than just branding.

0:26:29.083,0:26:31.583
I was so much more than just
a business thing.

0:26:31.583,0:26:34.208
It was. It was identity.
It was identity driven.

0:26:34.208,0:26:36.125
It was a part of these people's
identities.

0:26:36.125,0:26:38.416
And, that's that's where I.

0:26:38.416,0:26:40.000
That's that's how I fell in love with it.

0:26:40.000,0:26:43.250
And that's that's
how I was able to bridge architecture.

0:26:43.250,0:26:47.291
And what I'm doing now,
which is digital design, branding,

0:26:47.291,0:26:49.541
product design, all of those things.

0:26:49.541,0:26:53.125
But our our special sauce
and what we do differently,

0:26:53.250,0:26:56.125
what I do differently
is that identity architecture,

0:26:56.125,0:26:58.958
helping people understand who they are
and how to translate that

0:26:58.958,0:26:59.916
into the marketplace.

0:27:01.208,0:27:03.333
So, having the

0:27:03.333,0:27:06.333
experience of starting multiple times,

0:27:06.583,0:27:09.791
I always find it the most challenging
for almost every entrepreneur is

0:27:09.791,0:27:13.625
like when they got there, maybe they
they've got the basics of their offerings,

0:27:13.625,0:27:17.500
and then they getting that first
5 to 10 clients

0:27:18.541,0:27:20.500
that first just as just getting them.

0:27:20.500,0:27:23.708
What is your advice
on getting those first few clients

0:27:23.708,0:27:26.833
to help you get to the path of possible
sustainability?

0:27:29.833,0:27:31.416
well,

0:27:31.416,0:27:34.291
number one is you don't need

0:27:34.291,0:27:37.291
a business card
and you don't need a website,

0:27:37.958,0:27:40.958
and you don't need anything, honestly,
to just sell.

0:27:41.458,0:27:41.708
Right.

0:27:41.708,0:27:44.083
And make that ask
and put yourself out there.

0:27:44.083,0:27:47.791
that's something I realized
after multiple times of starting.

0:27:48.125,0:27:51.750
I thought, I need a perfect business card
and a perfect website,

0:27:51.750,0:27:55.166
and everything had to be perfect before
I actually even got out there and sold.

0:27:55.500,0:27:58.125
But I
what I realized is that was this fear.

0:27:58.125,0:28:00.208
That was fear on my side.
I was afraid to sell.

0:28:00.208,0:28:01.375
I wasn't confident yet.

0:28:01.375,0:28:04.291
And what we were,
what we were actually selling and

0:28:04.291,0:28:07.083
and what I realized was
I wasn't even selling anything.

0:28:07.083,0:28:08.833
I was just trying to help people.

0:28:08.833,0:28:11.458
So when I moved to Seattle
and started a small studio,

0:28:11.458,0:28:13.375
I was brand new to this whole new city.

0:28:13.375,0:28:16.541
One of the at the time when I moved
there was the fastest growing city

0:28:16.541,0:28:17.833
in the world, right?

0:28:17.833,0:28:21.000
They had the most cranes in the world
in downtown Seattle.

0:28:21.000,0:28:24.000
And I'm here
trying to start this new design agency.

0:28:24.541,0:28:26.791
All right. Everybody I talked to,
I was like, what are you doing?

0:28:26.791,0:28:28.500
Why why would you do that?

0:28:28.500,0:28:31.916
And I was like, well, it's
what this what I'm doing.

0:28:32.458,0:28:36.500
And right when I started to talk to people
and listen to people and really,

0:28:36.500,0:28:39.333
truly understand who they are
and what they're doing,

0:28:39.333,0:28:41.875
what they're trying to do,
I, I started to find those moments

0:28:41.875,0:28:45.000
where I could, I,
I know I can help you with that.

0:28:45.750,0:28:48.750
And I told them that and they were like,
all right, let's go.

0:28:49.083,0:28:50.166
And I had an idea.

0:28:50.166,0:28:54.958
We had our first client
before we even got the LLC filed. Wow.

0:28:55.000,0:28:55.375
All right.

0:28:55.375,0:29:00.541
one of my first goals was actually
to get Choi to be able to quit his job

0:29:01.208,0:29:04.208
full time so you can come full time
on the Small studio.

0:29:04.333,0:29:09.125
I think in the first three months,
we had made almost $150,000, right.

0:29:09.125,0:29:12.625
And that was me
just selling and talking to people

0:29:12.625,0:29:14.916
and letting them know who we are
and what we're doing.

0:29:14.916,0:29:18.583
And, and, that was before
we even had a website, right?

0:29:18.625,0:29:22.458
We made $150,000 before we even had
a website, before we had business cards,

0:29:22.833,0:29:23.791
all of that stuff.

0:29:23.791,0:29:27.541
And,
that would be my biggest piece of advice

0:29:28.000,0:29:31.583
for people that are just starting,
especially in services.

0:29:33.000,0:29:36.000
You need to know how you can help people

0:29:36.000,0:29:39.500
and why
you you're the best person to help them.

0:29:40.416,0:29:42.458
If you can do that,
you don't have to sell.

0:29:42.458,0:29:44.833
You really just have to talk to people,
right?

0:29:44.833,0:29:47.541
The whole relationship. Yeah, yeah.

0:29:47.541,0:29:49.291
And then, like I just saw this quote

0:29:49.291,0:29:52.291
when the marketing is your story,
you don't have to do anything but live

0:29:52.333,0:29:55.416
and just go out and meet people
and a great point you made

0:29:55.416,0:29:59.250
is that a lot of folks
get get paralyzed by perfection.

0:29:59.791,0:30:02.041
you know, they wait and wait and see.

0:30:02.041,0:30:02.958
I it has to be this way.

0:30:02.958,0:30:05.083
Has to be that way. Has to be right.

0:30:05.083,0:30:07.958
And that prevents them because
you got to go out and talk to people.

0:30:07.958,0:30:08.583
Like, really?

0:30:08.583,0:30:09.875
It still comes down to the basics.

0:30:09.875,0:30:12.750
It still comes down to talking to people
and talking to people.

0:30:12.750,0:30:15.750
Before you're ready, just like you said,
you have to know who you are

0:30:16.083,0:30:17.875
and that's what you're
bringing to the table.

0:30:17.875,0:30:20.750
You know who you are as a person
and what your why is.

0:30:20.750,0:30:24.041
And I guess that's why you're that's why
you're the man with identity architecture.

0:30:24.083,0:30:25.500
Like, I never even heard of that term
before you.

0:30:25.500,0:30:29.375
So that's,
And you really educated me on that.

0:30:29.375,0:30:30.791
Let me give you this, Rob.

0:30:30.791,0:30:34.291
I've been living it
for six and a half years,

0:30:34.458,0:30:38.750
and it's not until just now, this year,
maybe last quarter,

0:30:39.250,0:30:42.958
that I was willing to double down
on identity architecture

0:30:42.958,0:30:43.833
and realize, like,

0:30:43.833,0:30:47.125
that is our unique differentiator,
that that's what makes us different

0:30:47.125,0:30:49.125
than every other design agency
in the world.

0:30:49.125,0:30:52.708
That's what makes us different than any
every other designer in the world.

0:30:52.708,0:30:54.750
Is that what you just said?

0:30:54.750,0:30:58.333
When you're marketing is your story,
you just have to live.

0:30:59.083,0:31:01.083
That's literally
all I want to do for people.

0:31:01.083,0:31:03.750
Hey, I'm trying to market this.

0:31:03.750,0:31:06.791
I'm trying to be like everyone else
in the marketplace.

0:31:07.333,0:31:09.000
Go right here, right here.

0:31:09.000,0:31:10.291
Do the reflection

0:31:11.375,0:31:12.500
on yourself.

0:31:12.500,0:31:13.750
You know, like reflect.

0:31:13.750,0:31:18.333
So I always say that you gotta reflect
in order to project authentically.

0:31:19.083,0:31:22.083
And you gotta reflect in order
to project authentically.

0:31:22.458,0:31:24.583
And if you're not reflect. That's a bar.

0:31:24.583,0:31:27.250
Let's go, let's go.

0:31:27.250,0:31:29.458
If you're not reflecting, then

0:31:29.458,0:31:33.208
you're projecting something
that you consumed typically.

0:31:33.416,0:31:36.708
So that's why I see a lot of this stuff
out there

0:31:37.083,0:31:39.750
in the marketplace, on social media,
so on and so forth.

0:31:39.750,0:31:42.000
It's just people that are just there.

0:31:42.000,0:31:44.791
Then they don't want to do the work

0:31:44.791,0:31:49.791
to truly reflect on themselves
and their story and their experiences.

0:31:50.250,0:31:51.750
And I tell people all the time,

0:31:51.750,0:31:55.291
if you just do that,
you'll save a lot of money in marketing.

0:31:55.750,0:31:57.958
You'll save a lot of time.

0:31:57.958,0:31:58.291
All right.

0:31:58.291,0:32:01.625
And that's why we realize that this
this is the core service

0:32:01.625,0:32:05.958
that we have to offer,
because it changes the way we design.

0:32:06.125,0:32:10.208
It changes the way that people,
you know, market everything that you do.

0:32:10.208,0:32:12.791
If you do that reflection,
it helps everything else you do.

0:32:13.875,0:32:15.958
Now that's that's those are all bars, man.

0:32:15.958,0:32:18.416
That's a that's a that was great.

0:32:18.416,0:32:21.416
that was really great advice.

0:32:22.083,0:32:26.041
so I want to talk a little bit about your,
your, your, your personal journey

0:32:26.041,0:32:29.166
a little bit here because I know you,
you know, the last year,

0:32:29.750,0:32:30.625
it was going to go

0:32:30.625,0:32:33.625
you're going to go to MidwestCon,
and then you told me you got sick

0:32:34.291,0:32:36.625
and then you, you know, you actually been,
you know, revealed to me

0:32:36.625,0:32:39.666
recently that, you know, you know, cancer,
which is wild.

0:32:39.666,0:32:42.958
And talk about how that changed
your journey as,

0:32:42.958,0:32:46.041
as a man and as an entrepreneur
and like what?

0:32:46.083,0:32:49.083
Like what you learn from that process.

0:32:54.333,0:32:56.458
Well,

0:32:56.458,0:32:59.416
I have to say that it
it almost it's perfect

0:32:59.416,0:33:02.833
timing to bring that up because I think
everything that we just talked about

0:33:03.833,0:33:06.125
is still still true.

0:33:06.125,0:33:06.541
Right.

0:33:06.541,0:33:10.750
I think it's exemplified and magnified

0:33:10.750,0:33:15.125
when you go through, an illness
like that.

0:33:15.583,0:33:16.000
Right.

0:33:16.000,0:33:19.000
So for me, I found out

0:33:19.541,0:33:21.875
right after I train for a marathon, I ran

0:33:21.875,0:33:24.875
a three hour marathon in May.

0:33:25.000,0:33:28.125
And if for everybody that doesn't know,
the three hour marathon is like

0:33:28.125,0:33:32.041
seven minute miles
for the whole marathon, and, Oh, Lord.

0:33:32.208,0:33:36.291
Oh, I trained for,
you know, six months to do that.

0:33:36.291,0:33:37.291
It was a goal of mine.

0:33:37.291,0:33:43.333
and during that training,
I started seeing some some signs, right,

0:33:43.333,0:33:47.125
started finding some blood in my stools,
and I thought it was just a training.

0:33:47.583,0:33:49.083
Right.
That's what I would have thought through.

0:33:49.083,0:33:51.041
Yeah, and that's what they.

0:33:51.041,0:33:52.791
The doctors thought, too.

0:33:52.791,0:33:58.541
thank God I just went ahead and got the
colonoscopy because, they found a tumor.

0:33:58.958,0:34:02.541
and it was they
they ended up doing the MRI.

0:34:02.541,0:34:04.250
Found out on stage two.

0:34:04.250,0:34:05.916
So still pretty early.

0:34:05.916,0:34:08.583
but I can only imagine that 35.

0:34:08.583,0:34:11.666
If I would have waited any longer,
what could have happened?

0:34:13.583,0:34:14.791
So long story

0:34:14.791,0:34:18.208
short, stage two colon cancer.

0:34:18.541,0:34:23.291
it's going to require radiation
and chemotherapy, right?

0:34:23.291,0:34:26.333
so I was prescribed to five weeks.

0:34:26.708,0:34:29.583
Five days a week of radiation,

0:34:29.583,0:34:33.375
and then, eight treatments
of chemotherapy every two weeks.

0:34:33.375,0:34:36.750
So I was a total of
six months of treatment.

0:34:37.208,0:34:37.625
Right.

0:34:37.625,0:34:41.958
So, go back to when I was diagnosed,
I had no idea how

0:34:42.208,0:34:45.208
what was, what was going to happen and how

0:34:45.583,0:34:47.458
that was going to transpire. Right.

0:34:47.458,0:34:51.541
You only you only hear a lot about cancer
on, you know, TV shows.

0:34:51.541,0:34:55.458
And if maybe if you have somebody
in your family that dealt with it, which,

0:34:55.833,0:34:56.916
you know, I never did.

0:34:56.916,0:34:59.250
So I had no idea about it.

0:34:59.250,0:35:01.750
my, my, my, my older sister had,

0:35:02.791,0:35:04.291
Hodgkin's lymphoma, but I

0:35:04.291,0:35:08.583
was younger, so I really didn't
walk with her through it

0:35:08.875,0:35:11.875
fully,
and I didn't remember what it was like,

0:35:12.000,0:35:15.000
but, I, I didn't know
if I was gonna be able to work.

0:35:15.666,0:35:16.416
And here we are.

0:35:16.416,0:35:19.083
You know, I'm principal of my design firm.

0:35:19.083,0:35:22.083
I have six employees.

0:35:22.583,0:35:25.291
I'm the primary breadwinner at that firm.

0:35:25.291,0:35:28.291
I do all of the business development.

0:35:28.333,0:35:29.583
Yeah. You know, I.

0:35:29.583,0:35:32.166
And you talked about that, like something
with your experience. Just to know.

0:35:32.166,0:35:34.208
Just so we talked about this,

0:35:34.208,0:35:37.333
that, you know, you found
there's a lot of support systems for folks

0:35:37.333,0:35:41.625
in cancer from a lot of different,
fields, but not with entrepreneurship.

0:35:42.125,0:35:44.291
Not not business owners. No.

0:35:44.291,0:35:48.875
it was a couple of hearing,
you know, things for employees.

0:35:48.875,0:35:51.833
And, you know, if you're an employee,
you could take some leave.

0:35:51.833,0:35:54.416
And, you know,
you got you. So on and so forth.

0:35:54.416,0:35:56.791
And for me as a business owner,

0:35:56.791,0:35:57.708
you know,

0:35:57.708,0:36:00.125
even if they just paid for my salary,
that's not enough,

0:36:00.125,0:36:02.958
because that's not going to generate
revenue for my business.

0:36:02.958,0:36:03.458
Right.

0:36:03.458,0:36:07.500
So there's not a lot of support
from what I found.

0:36:07.500,0:36:10.416
And I even asked
some of the social workers, right.

0:36:10.416,0:36:13.666
Are there grants out there
for business owners who are, you know,

0:36:14.666,0:36:17.375
struggling with an illness like this?

0:36:17.375,0:36:20.375
Does nothing I could find. And,

0:36:21.208,0:36:24.208
it made me realize, like, once again,

0:36:24.500,0:36:27.500
going back
to what we talked about earlier, they.

0:36:27.583,0:36:30.458
All right,
let's go. You know. Like. Yeah.

0:36:30.458,0:36:33.375
All right. God, what are we going to do?
How are we going to make this happen?

0:36:33.375,0:36:38.041
And, I thank God for my wife,

0:36:38.625,0:36:41.875
who also we found out two weeks after

0:36:41.875,0:36:45.750
I was diagnosed with cancer that she was
pregnant with our second child.

0:36:46.791,0:36:48.041
yeah.

0:36:48.041,0:36:50.958
And she was there with me
every step of the way.

0:36:50.958,0:36:54.125
Strong
as I could have ever asked her to be.

0:36:54.208,0:36:55.958
I thank God for my team.

0:36:55.958,0:36:58.666
They were one of the first people
I told about it.

0:36:58.666,0:36:59.166
Right.

0:37:00.333,0:37:03.333
you know,
they they supported me through it all.

0:37:03.541,0:37:07.833
and I just thank God I, I the faith,

0:37:08.000,0:37:10.833
you know, going back to what we talked
about earlier, that that inner,

0:37:10.833,0:37:14.583
that mental battle, that inner battle of
am I good enough?

0:37:14.583,0:37:15.458
Can I do this?

0:37:15.458,0:37:19.125
Do I have enough energy like,
I, I just want to quit.

0:37:19.666,0:37:22.875
And there are many times
throughout treatment I just wanted to quit

0:37:23.500,0:37:26.750
because it's like isn't even worth it,
right?

0:37:26.750,0:37:28.083
Like, what am I?

0:37:28.083,0:37:29.833
What am I really fighting for here?

0:37:29.833,0:37:33.666
And, and I'm just so glad that
I stuck it through,

0:37:33.666,0:37:37.833
because coming out the other side,
I actually, today

0:37:38.250,0:37:43.041
I had my last, procedure
to make sure it was completely gone.

0:37:43.041,0:37:45.250
And now the cancer is completely gone.

0:37:45.250,0:37:46.333
That's wonderful.

0:37:46.333,0:37:47.000
Yeah.

0:37:47.000,0:37:50.958
And and I couldn't
I couldn't, I don't know, I'm.

0:37:51.000,0:37:55.750
I'm such a different person than I was
a year ago now already, you know.

0:37:55.791,0:37:56.083
Right.

0:37:56.083,0:37:59.500
and and you're the for you
this podcast.

0:37:59.500,0:38:00.958
First time I'm even talking about it.

0:38:00.958,0:38:02.541
Most of the people didn't know.

0:38:02.541,0:38:03.375
yeah.

0:38:03.375,0:38:07.416
You did tell people on purpose
because I just didn't want to be

0:38:07.416,0:38:11.458
looked at with sympathy and
and with those eyes that, you know,

0:38:11.458,0:38:14.666
you look at somebody when they have
cancer, a lot of people can't handle

0:38:15.625,0:38:18.250
you telling
them that they have cancer, right?

0:38:18.250,0:38:20.583
Including a lot of my family members.

0:38:20.583,0:38:21.666
Right? Absolutely. Yeah.

0:38:21.666,0:38:23.541
It's it's really hard on people.

0:38:23.541,0:38:27.125
And I realize that, however,

0:38:27.125,0:38:30.750
I felt like God was telling me, like,
John, you do this and this is a testimony

0:38:31.208,0:38:34.750
to many other people who I hope are
listening.

0:38:34.750,0:38:38.833
And, you know,
if you have any symptoms, you know, colon

0:38:38.833,0:38:41.916
cancer is one of the most common cancers,
but it's also

0:38:41.916,0:38:46.041
one of the most curable cancers out there
when it's caught early.

0:38:46.041,0:38:50.041
And, being a black man,
we are even more susceptible

0:38:50.041,0:38:54.000
to colon cancer than most other,
nationalities.

0:38:54.000,0:38:57.416
So I just want to use this
as an opportunity to tell people, like,

0:38:57.458,0:39:01.208
even if you like,
even if you don't have symptoms,

0:39:02.458,0:39:04.166
Get your colonoscopy; it's

0:39:04.166,0:39:04.833
Not of bad.

0:39:04.833,0:39:06.041
And if you.

0:39:06.041,0:39:07.208
Have no experience, if.

0:39:07.208,0:39:10.583
You don't,
you know, like, get, like get a check.

0:39:10.916,0:39:15.708
But, I talked to my surgeon today,
you know, he said he tells his friends

0:39:15.708,0:39:20.041
just to tell the doctor, hey, I got some,
I got some, I got some bleeding going on.

0:39:20.291,0:39:22.708
and I will allow the insurance
to pay for it.

0:39:22.708,0:39:25.416
And that's a that's a hack straight from.

0:39:25.416,0:39:28.416
Straight from the source, you know. So,

0:39:28.416,0:39:33.125
I think I think we need to take a stand
for that, and I, I'm just grateful

0:39:33.125,0:39:37.958
to be able to speak about it in this way
because, my business is still alive.

0:39:37.958,0:39:39.708
I'm still alive.

0:39:39.708,0:39:43.291
My baby boy is due here
in less than a month, and,

0:39:43.375,0:39:47.416
and I have a a story to tell with it.

0:39:47.500,0:39:48.875
Absolutely.

0:39:48.875,0:39:52.333
All right, let's get to some wrap up
questions here towards the end here. So,

0:39:53.666,0:39:55.083
what's an important truth you

0:39:55.083,0:39:58.333
have that
very few people agree with you on?

0:39:59.333,0:40:02.333
This is the hard question on purpose.

0:40:03.541,0:40:04.500
Important truth

0:40:04.500,0:40:07.625
that I have
that very few people agree with me on.

0:40:12.291,0:40:14.916
I have to I have as a, as a entrepreneur,

0:40:14.916,0:40:18.625
as a founder, I got to go to my mission
at a small scale.

0:40:18.875,0:40:23.166
our mission is to empower creatives
to use their gifts to bring peace.

0:40:23.791,0:40:26.500
And I believe that each of us

0:40:26.500,0:40:30.333
have been given
a unique perspective on the world.

0:40:30.333,0:40:34.416
A unique gift that we are supposed

0:40:34.416,0:40:38.791
to use
to bring peace to the lives of others.

0:40:38.791,0:40:40.000
Right.

0:40:40.000,0:40:43.291
And I talked to a lot of people
who roll their eyes when I tell them

0:40:43.291,0:40:44.583
our mission.

0:40:44.583,0:40:49.958
I pray at the same time, it's it's unique
because it's about bringing peace

0:40:49.958,0:40:53.791
and not just doing work right
and not just creating,

0:40:54.083,0:40:54.875
you know,

0:40:54.875,0:40:59.583
money or impact or, you know, whatever
it is, it's like this idea of peace

0:40:59.833,0:41:03.833
that not many people, I think, understand,
especially in the marketplace, you know?

0:41:03.833,0:41:05.875
So I have to repeat that mission

0:41:05.875,0:41:09.583
to my team over and over and over again
every week.

0:41:10.208,0:41:13.041
And, it's something

0:41:13.041,0:41:16.791
that I hope more and more
and more people realize like that.

0:41:16.791,0:41:21.875
That's why we are
here, is to bring peace, like, it's

0:41:22.500,0:41:26.041
it says in the Bible,
blessed are the peacemakers, right?

0:41:26.083,0:41:28.291
we are called to bring peace.

0:41:28.291,0:41:31.833
So no matter, I hope that no matter what
you're disrupting,

0:41:32.250,0:41:36.458
you're disrupting the world
to bring more peace to people as we are.

0:41:36.541,0:41:38.208
We're about disruption for empowerment.

0:41:38.208,0:41:40.458
Let's go. Let's let's go,

0:41:41.833,0:41:42.208
let's go.

0:41:42.208,0:41:44.708
We definitely share that comment.
All right.

0:41:44.708,0:41:48.041
you have a committee of three,
living or dead, to advise you

0:41:48.041,0:41:52.166
on life, business or combination thereof.

0:41:52.500,0:41:55.500
Who are these people and why?

0:41:57.916,0:41:59.000
Committee of three.

0:41:59.000,0:42:03.333
Well, first and foremost is is God.

0:42:06.583,0:42:09.583
The wisdom, you know, that comes from

0:42:09.916,0:42:13.625
I always tell people, whether you're
religious or not, I'm not religious.

0:42:13.625,0:42:15.250
I don't call myself religious.

0:42:15.250,0:42:17.375
I would say I have a faith, right.

0:42:17.375,0:42:20.916
the wisdom
and the peace that comes with having

0:42:20.916,0:42:23.916
somebody just right here all the time.

0:42:24.083,0:42:25.958
Yeah. And it's not you.

0:42:25.958,0:42:29.750
It's somebody else
that is helping you along that way.

0:42:30.541,0:42:31.958
I think that that's priceless.

0:42:31.958,0:42:35.750
And I just hope more and more people
realize that we always have access

0:42:35.750,0:42:38.750
to a helper. Right? That's right. Here.

0:42:38.791,0:42:39.625
Yep.

0:42:41.583,0:42:43.000
Number two, may get

0:42:43.000,0:42:46.833
some laughs, but, Dwayne The Rock.

0:42:46.833,0:42:49.833
Johnson. The rock. Okay.

0:42:49.833,0:42:50.958
tell me what the Rock is cooking here.

0:42:50.958,0:42:51.916
Let me see over here. Why?

0:42:51.916,0:42:52.750
This is.

0:42:52.750,0:42:57.291
Man, Dwayne, Dwayne Johnson has the most

0:42:57.875,0:43:00.291
infectious personality, right?

0:43:00.291,0:43:03.666
That's that's why
he they call him the people's champion.

0:43:03.666,0:43:06.916
And I grew up during when when the rock
was, like, wrestling, you know?

0:43:06.916,0:43:07.916
So, Yeah.

0:43:07.916,0:43:11.500
Yeah, I was a big fan of him back
when wrestling was cool.

0:43:11.833,0:43:12.916
yeah, I.

0:43:12.916,0:43:15.250
Know some of it
after he left is not cool. Anymore.

0:43:15.250,0:43:17.333
Yeah,

0:43:17.333,0:43:21.041
but, you know, you know, being being,

0:43:23.208,0:43:24.166
I don't know,

0:43:24.166,0:43:27.083
he's he he has done so many things.

0:43:27.083,0:43:28.833
He's an incredible entrepreneur.

0:43:28.833,0:43:31.416
All of his brands have been successful,
right?

0:43:31.416,0:43:36.000
From beverages to merchandise
to, you know, an actor.

0:43:36.000,0:43:38.541
And even when he acts right, it's like.

0:43:38.541,0:43:38.875
Yeah.

0:43:38.875,0:43:42.750
You can't help but like, the guy and I,
I always, I always look at him

0:43:42.750,0:43:46.000
as a role model
in a way from a personality standpoint,

0:43:46.416,0:43:51.250
because that's like the personality I hope
to bring to every environment I'm in.

0:43:51.375,0:43:54.666
Right?
So I say he's my personality coach. Right?

0:43:54.750,0:43:56.916
Okay. I'm coach.

0:43:56.916,0:43:58.250
Right. And then third,

0:43:59.916,0:44:00.541
I'm going to I'm going

0:44:00.541,0:44:04.083
to go with my,
my longtime mentor, Dan Tire.

0:44:04.500,0:44:05.750
okay.

0:44:05.750,0:44:09.791
He's my he's my,
he's my business coach and sales coach.

0:44:09.958,0:44:15.375
Dan was, number, I think,
one of the early employees at HubSpot.

0:44:15.833,0:44:18.041
yeah, the angel investor.

0:44:18.041,0:44:21.458
I actually cold called Dan a while ago

0:44:21.458,0:44:23.791
when I was going through
my entrepreneurial journey

0:44:23.791,0:44:26.416
with the startups, and I'm like,
I need a mentor.

0:44:26.416,0:44:30.125
And he he took me on as his mentor,
and he was actually at the parole board

0:44:30.125,0:44:34.625
hearing for my brother when he was
released from prison, last year.

0:44:34.958,0:44:39.625
And, I haven't met many men in my life
that not only were willing to mentor me,

0:44:39.875,0:44:42.916
help me with my business,
but then also help me

0:44:43.250,0:44:46.541
with personal things like helping
my brother be released from prison.

0:44:46.750,0:44:47.416
Right.

0:44:47.416,0:44:52.666
so I, ride or die with that guy
for the rest of my life.

0:44:52.666,0:44:57.416
I don't I don't care about anybody else
in the business world, you know?

0:44:57.875,0:45:01.166
You on or or,
you know, all those other guys,

0:45:01.208,0:45:05.000
and they ain't got nothing on Dan Tire,
All right.

0:45:05.041,0:45:07.625
No. That's great.
all right, this is a quote.

0:45:07.625,0:45:11.750
You said,
"trust the process, but test the process."

0:45:11.916,0:45:12.750
What does that mean?

0:45:15.250,0:45:18.041
well, if you're building anything,

0:45:18.041,0:45:19.083
I'll actually.

0:45:19.083,0:45:20.916
I'll make it relevant
to identity architecture.

0:45:20.916,0:45:23.041
We we actually call it
identity architecture.

0:45:23.041,0:45:26.291
we translate into this idea of a creative
operating system

0:45:27.000,0:45:29.791
for the people we serve for us.

0:45:29.791,0:45:30.041
Right.

0:45:30.041,0:45:34.000
So we use this process of identity
architecture to help reveal

0:45:34.000,0:45:37.041
who someone is
so we can design better for them.

0:45:37.500,0:45:38.333
Right.

0:45:38.333,0:45:42.750
but when you apply as a founder,
you're always building something, right?

0:45:42.750,0:45:46.125
You're building an operating system,
how you operate every single day.

0:45:46.666,0:45:51.416
So an operating system
is a number of inputs and outputs, right?

0:45:51.416,0:45:56.250
Really, truly is is code how it operates
or how this window pops

0:45:56.250,0:45:59.416
up, what it looks like when you do this,
what happens, so on and so forth.

0:46:00.125,0:46:04.458
And if you're if you decide
that you're only going to use this one

0:46:04.458,0:46:06.625
operating system
for the rest of your life,

0:46:06.625,0:46:09.625
your life eventually
is going to become outdated.

0:46:10.000,0:46:12.666
You have and I would say that

0:46:12.666,0:46:16.708
every day is outdated a little bit, right?

0:46:16.708,0:46:21.416
Every day I am new as a person, as a as a
as a just a being.

0:46:21.875,0:46:22.125
Right?

0:46:22.125,0:46:26.500
So I say trust the process
because I have to trust. That's a faith.

0:46:27.291,0:46:30.875
I have to trust that it's going to work
at the trust that I can show up.

0:46:30.875,0:46:35.041
And it will work today in this meeting
or this podcast or whatever it is.

0:46:35.666,0:46:38.666
But I can't hold on to it so strongly

0:46:38.833,0:46:43.083
that nothing else could ever evolve it
or make it better, you know?

0:46:43.083,0:46:43.500
Yeah.

0:46:43.500,0:46:46.500
And so,
you know, that's why I say test it.

0:46:46.750,0:46:50.208
And right now it's even more relevant,
you know, thinking about

0:46:50.208,0:46:54.458
AI and how it's disrupting
so many industries.

0:46:54.458,0:47:01.291
And one of the biggest ones
I think is under tremendous, attack

0:47:01.625,0:47:06.250
after I use that word attack
is, this tech right.

0:47:06.250,0:47:07.250
Development.

0:47:07.250,0:47:08.583
Yeah. Design.

0:47:08.583,0:47:11.250
All right. So I'm from a design agency.

0:47:11.250,0:47:11.833
You know.

0:47:11.833,0:47:15.916
You know, it's this perfect example
where I'm like, all right, cool.

0:47:15.916,0:47:19.166
Design is becoming a commodity now.

0:47:19.166,0:47:20.708
Yes, I'll say that out loud.

0:47:20.708,0:47:22.875
Right. Design is becoming a commodity.

0:47:22.875,0:47:27.583
If you do not have a unique way
of designing with intention,

0:47:28.958,0:47:29.916
you're not going to have a

0:47:29.916,0:47:35.625
job for long or you're going,
your prices are going to be cut so much

0:47:35.625,0:47:39.041
because it's no longer of as much value
as it once was.

0:47:39.125,0:47:40.125
Right?

0:47:40.125,0:47:43.083
So that's why identity architecture,
I see it

0:47:43.083,0:47:46.083
as the thing that separates
us from the rest.

0:47:46.625,0:47:49.625
And I've been we've been working on this
for six years.

0:47:49.958,0:47:54.083
And it's not just until now that
I realized, like, yo, trust the process,

0:47:54.666,0:47:55.250
trust side.

0:47:55.250,0:47:58.250
Then we've trust in the architecture
six years.

0:47:58.750,0:48:02.041
We've tested it
over and over and over again

0:48:02.041,0:48:05.708
in different industries
and in prisons, in Madagascar.

0:48:05.708,0:48:08.791
Right. And in the inner city with youth

0:48:09.125,0:48:13.000
to corporations, fortune 500 companies
all over.

0:48:13.000,0:48:14.375
We tested it.

0:48:14.375,0:48:16.791
And over
all, we've been able to make it better.

0:48:16.791,0:48:19.083
And we trust that it works.

0:48:19.083,0:48:20.000
But it can.

0:48:20.000,0:48:22.625
Only everything can get
better, you know? You know.

0:48:23.958,0:48:25.750
No, that's, Wow.

0:48:25.750,0:48:28.291
That's as a whole lot there.

0:48:28.291,0:48:30.541
I mean, that's that's definitely
that's definitely very powerful.

0:48:30.541,0:48:34.125
And, you made me think about one
final kind of question,

0:48:34.958,0:48:37.958
and you kind of addressed it,
but I want to just get to a little bit. AI.

0:48:37.958,0:48:43.208
How do you see you've talked about
AI just now disrupting the design industry

0:48:43.208,0:48:47.458
and very, in a very articulate
way, talked about what differentiates you.

0:48:47.458,0:48:48.500
It sounds like that

0:48:48.500,0:48:51.125
the identity architecture
and being intentional about your design,

0:48:51.125,0:48:55.291
because AI is now making it very easy
to just design something

0:48:55.291,0:48:56.500
if you just come up with the concept.

0:48:56.500,0:48:59.250
But how do you see that
tension playing out.

0:48:59.250,0:49:03.541
Because I continually develop like
how are you thinking about this as both

0:49:03.541,0:49:08.208
a, I guess a potential disruptor,
but also as an or as another avenue

0:49:08.208,0:49:09.333
to empower

0:49:09.333,0:49:12.125
or amplify what you do and like,
how do you see the balance and how do

0:49:12.125,0:49:13.000
you navigate this?

0:49:14.458,0:49:17.916
I, I love that AI is coming into play
because what it does

0:49:17.916,0:49:22.166
is it's challenging people
to, step away from mediocrity.

0:49:22.666,0:49:25.125
So AI is just mediocrity, right?

0:49:25.125,0:49:28.125
It's it's literally the, the,

0:49:28.125,0:49:32.583
mean of all of the inputs
that are already out there.

0:49:32.791,0:49:34.750
Right? Or outputs
that are already out there.

0:49:34.750,0:49:37.583
It's the average of them. All right.

0:49:37.583,0:49:40.583
So technically your average, you know,

0:49:40.583,0:49:43.875
and as a designer do you,
do you want to be an average designer.

0:49:43.875,0:49:45.625
And and design is one of those industries.

0:49:45.625,0:49:47.375
And you know,
you don't have to go to school

0:49:47.375,0:49:50.875
for five years like I had to do
for architecture to become a designer.

0:49:50.875,0:49:54.750
You can be a designer
by going on YouTube for a couple of days

0:49:54.750,0:49:58.291
a week, or, you know, a couple months
and get a bootcamp or whatever it is.

0:49:58.291,0:50:02.208
So that barrier to entry has become
so low in design,

0:50:02.916,0:50:06.583
where there's so many people
that are just putting out their work

0:50:06.583,0:50:10.541
and wanting to charge people,
you know, $5 for a logo.

0:50:10.875,0:50:14.958
99 designs design pickle cosmic designs.

0:50:14.958,0:50:17.958
I'm hearing all these design industries
where it's like

0:50:18.208,0:50:22.083
they're they're speaking about design
as if it's a commodity.

0:50:22.791,0:50:25.375
Right, like design and creativity

0:50:25.375,0:50:29.875
is one of the most valuable gifts
we've been given as a human

0:50:29.875,0:50:34.750
race is creativity,
design is the application of creativity

0:50:34.750,0:50:38.500
in a very specific purpose
or problem, right?

0:50:38.500,0:50:41.708
So I love that AI is coming here
because we're going to challenge

0:50:41.708,0:50:44.708
people to step up their game, right?

0:50:44.916,0:50:49.833
Stand out and be unique and
and bring the human aspect

0:50:50.250,0:50:53.250
of creativity to design.

0:50:53.250,0:50:57.625
And that's
what I think separates AI from crew.

0:50:57.666,0:51:02.791
They creatives
specifically AI is a tool, right?

0:51:02.791,0:51:06.875
Just like your
your your your, hammer on your tool bill.

0:51:06.875,0:51:07.958
It's a tool.

0:51:07.958,0:51:11.416
Use it to make yourself better, right.

0:51:11.416,0:51:12.958
And make your work better.

0:51:12.958,0:51:16.250
But don't use it to create your work.

0:51:17.458,0:51:18.041
right.

0:51:18.041,0:51:21.041
That's good. Creating an AI.

0:51:21.333,0:51:25.916
That's where I think we're really getting
where we're really struggling as a

0:51:25.916,0:51:29.250
as a society that you use AI to help

0:51:29.250,0:51:32.333
you create, you don't use it to create.

0:51:32.333,0:51:33.458
And that's that.

0:51:33.458,0:51:36.125
I created this is good enough.

0:51:36.125,0:51:38.791
That's I think is a is a slippery slope.

0:51:38.791,0:51:39.958
And I don't think that

0:51:39.958,0:51:43.625
we'll if we do that, we'll end up
with a bunch of the same stuff

0:51:43.958,0:51:50.666
and we will become a very mediocre,
well, we will become very mediocre.

0:51:50.708,0:51:52.833
I'll just I'll just leave it in there.

0:51:52.833,0:51:56.208
No, I agree, so somebody said, as we wrap
up, someone what?

0:51:56.208,0:51:58.416
someone said this
and I can't remember who said it.

0:51:58.416,0:52:00.875
so I'll give them credit
when I remember later.

0:52:00.875,0:52:03.250
But, you know, there's
artificial intelligence.

0:52:03.250,0:52:05.166
Other authentic intelligence.

0:52:05.166,0:52:05.791
Oh, right.

0:52:05.791,0:52:09.666
If you want authentic intelligence,
you need to have the creativity.

0:52:10.083,0:52:14.916
Humans have to be involved and you use the
AI to to enhance but not replace.

0:52:14.916,0:52:15.666
That's good.

0:52:15.666,0:52:17.250
That's a good bar to use in that.

0:52:17.250,0:52:20.291
yeah. to add on,
I appreciate you, brother.

0:52:20.291,0:52:22.666
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Appreciate you so much.

0:52:22.666,0:52:24.458
Oh, hold on
before you leave. Thank you brother.