ROB
Hello.

MARISA
Good morning, Rob.

ROB
Good morning. How are you?

MARISA
I'm good. How are you?

ROB
I'm doing well.

MARISA
Senator Turner will be signing in one minute.

ROB
Great. Busy morning already.

MARISA
Oh yeah. I'm sure. But I'm excited for this. I think this will be a great conversation. Thank you so much for reaching out.

ROB
Oh, no problem. No, thank you. Trevor reached out, one of your people, and I was like, “Yeah.” I love Senator Turner. She's great. It will be fun.

MARISA
Definitely.

ROB
Have her log… Are you on Chrome?

MARISA
I am.

ROB
Okay. Let me make sure she logs on Chrome. I might have her to do this other… backup our sound. We'll see if it works. Sometimes, it does. Sometimes, it doesn't. -- Testing 123. Testing. Let's see. Yep. Testing.

SENATOR TURNER
Good morning.
ROB
Hello. Good morning.

SENATOR TURNER
How are you?

ROB
Let me add… Let's see if this works.

MARISA
And you said Chrome is… what? You said Chrome is best?

ROB
Yes. -- Senator Turner, are you on Chrome?

SENATOR TURNER
Yes.

ROB
Wonderful. Can you do me favor? There's a link in the chat. Can you hit that? I want to see if we can get local record for your microphone. Sometimes, this works. Sometimes, it gives an echo. If it gives an echo, we just won't use that. We'll just use Zoom's backup sound.

SENATOR TURNER
I’m going to come in and back out.

MARISA
Oh.

ROB
She said she's going to come in and come back out.

MARISA
Oh okay.

ROB
So have you worked on any campaign before the senator’s?

MARISA
I have. I have. I was most recently in Iowa. I'm working on a senate campaign down there.

ROB
Oh okay.
MARISA
Yeah. Definitely.

ROB
Hello.

SENATOR TURNER
Hello. Let me hit your link again.

ROB
Okay. Give me a second.

SENATOR TURNER
We’ll be needing that on? Okay. You got to put another one in?

ROB
If you can't see it, probably because you went in and went out. You see it now?

SENATOR TURNER
Uh-huh. I'm on Chrome but it's saying it’s unsupported.

ROB
Don't worry about it. We're just going to go.

SENATOR TURNER
Okay.

ROB
Yeah. You sound great, anyway, actually. You're doing well?

SENATOR TURNER
Yeah, I'm doing okay. How are you?

ROB
Hey, blessed. I can't complain. So we’ll just get ready to rock and roll.

SENATOR TURNER
True that.

ROB
All right. Let’s go.

SENATOR TURNER
Okay.

ROB
Three… two… one.

START: 04:08

ROB RICHARDSON
Welcome to Disruption Now. I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. With me is one of the best fighters I know, State Senator Nina Turner, who is running for congress in Cleveland. -- What is the congressional district you’re running in?

SENATOR NINA TURNER
The 11th Congressional District and that is portions of Greater Cleveland with Cleveland being the major city and portions of Greater Akron, of course, Akron being the major city. We have suburban communities surrounding that Greater Cleveland, Greater Akron area.

ROB
Yeah. We both are alumni to running statewide in Ohio. We have the experience and bruises but we still kept fighting. We still keep moving forward. You were a great supporter of mine during my run. I thank you for all your advice and all your support.

It's not easy running in Ohio. I believe one of the central--

First of all, I want to say thank you for doing what you're doing and continuing being involved. People give people running for office in public service a really hard time. And this is a really difficult time to be running for public office. So my first question to you is, “Why?” Why in the world are you running for office when you could be doing other things?

You were certainly helping behind the scenes, helping candidates, which is honorable, but now you want to get back into it yourself. Why do you want to do this in this toxic, crazy environment? Why would you want to put yourself through this? I think that's the question I have to ask because it's a lot to put yourself through.

SENATOR TURNER
It is, Rob. And thank you for lifting up... I mean we both do. If I can just pause because I think it's important for people to know that people like you and me did get into the arena. FDR has this great, long quote about being the man in the arena and I want to add “woman” to that -- you know, humankind. We were in that arena.

And he goes on to talk about, you know, “We got the bruises and the scars” and all of that kind of stuff. Now I'm paraphrasing but his message was, “to those who criticize, who never did anything or dared to be in that kind of arena--”
So it's not us. It is the people who just sit back and complain and bemoan and try to find things that are wrong versus people like us who actually get in there to try to be, in the words of Mahatma Gandhi, the “change that we want to see in the world.”

So I do want to applaud you, particularly African-American people who came before us.

ROB
Absolutely.

SENATOR TURNER
A few of them are still walking around right now in either Columbus or Cincinnati or Cleveland. They laid a strong foundation for people like you and me to Charleta Tavares… Senator Tavares’s of the world, the Sykes of the world.

ROB
Absolutely.

SENATOR TURNER
You know, Barbara Sykes and etc., etc. You know where I'm coming from so I don't think we should gloss over that. It is very important that you ran for Treasurer. It is very important that I ran for Secretary of State.

ROB
No question.

SENATOR TURNER
And although we didn't necessarily win those races, we sow from the soil for others who are going to come after us, and that is vitally important. So thank you for taking that risk.

I mean, why now? I would say, “Why not now?” The needs are great. And I do think that for a time such as this, a personality like mine, the work that I've done, not only in our state but all across this country, whether I'm standing up for Medicare for All for this district, the state and the nation, or I'm fighting to make sure that people have clean air, clean water, clean food, it is time. This moment is just… It is ripe for people who are going to be not only speakers of the truth but also doers of the deed, and I am that person.

You know, I do have my days like anybody. I'm sure you had your days to…

ROB
I had a few of them.

SENATOR TURNER
…question your sanity.

ROB
[Laughter] Like, “Why am I doing this?”

SENATOR TURNER
Right.

ROB
I had those days. I had those days. Yes, I definitely did. You got to “Why” right now a little bit. I want to talk to you about why though. “Why are you doing public service,” period. What is your “Why” -- your central motivation beyond--

You talked about the things you want to solve which I hear “Medicare for All.” There's a lot of ways to solve problems and the political arena is one. “Why do you feel like you're doing this in the political arena” is the question.

SENATOR TURNER
I think it’s my ministry. I mean I see politics as a ministry. Many people might not see it that way. I don't think that you could serve that which you do not love.

So I've been in the [vineyard - 08:47] both as an active politician, meaning, fully elected, and now somebody who is the honorable. I never stopped. So even though I haven't been actively elected since 2014, I never stopped doing the people's work.

And there is a certain type of element and power to being elected. You can navigate the forces a little differently than you can as an activist. And to me, both of those forces are necessary. We need inside pressure and we also need outside pressure.

The journey that I've had thus far, especially over the last almost seven years, I think was preparing me even more, Rob, for this particular moment to run for this seat and to use all that I have learned, the relationships that I have earned, to be able to tilt the body politic towards the poor, the working poor and barely middle class.

It's just on me. I don't know if people who are joining us in this conversation right now ever had that thing. You know, it was driving you. It was calling you and you just couldn't shake it. So that's what it is for me. It is part of my ministry.

ROB
Yeah. You talked about having pressure from the inside and outside and that brings me to a question I want to ask. When you were with our revolution, you were pretty critical of the current president now -- not more critical than Trump, let me make that clear, but you were critical about some things.

I do agree with the inside and outside pressures. So this is a two-part question. How do you see yourself working with the administration in terms of moving forward but also holding them accountable because I think both are necessary. How do you navigate that and figure out that balance? Does not question make sense?

SENATOR TURNER
It does. I mean, we're going to work together fantastically. I'm actually looking forward to working with this administration.

The two things that you… “How do you work with but also hold accountable or keep a certain force so that we keep moving in the right direction” -- those things are not diametrically opposed. They actually go together. It is the job of a leader, especially if you are elected to a legislative body, to push the executive, to push the administrative branch or the executive branch of government. The job is not just to go along to get along but it is to be there to advocate for the needs of your constituents.

And there are going to be times when we are in full agreement. For example, the COVID relief bill, the $1.9 trillion, I thought, certainly, that was a very good start. The child tax credits that is passed that was in that policy, very good. The monies that are coming to state governments and local governments, very good. The $1400 by example, good. It could have been very good if it was the whole $2000. Plus, trying to frame and find ways to continue to shore people up during this pandemic which we, as you know, have not faced for 100 years, anything this supernatural magnitude.

And the suffering was there before the pandemic arrived. That really is my critique, is that we can't act as though the [indiscernible - 12:03] in this system, whether they're ratio or economic or gender-base or identity-based -- I mean, you name it -- those things, those isms, those human challenges were present.

ROB
Oh, absolutely. I think the pandemic exposed them in a way that people didn't… People saw more than they used to and accelerated trends and make things worse, right? So when school had to go remote, if you didn't have access to an internet, if you don't have good broadband access, you are already behind if you didn't have that type of support system.

As an example, if you're a working mother who had to go and figure out how to take care of the kids, you had to do that and be there to watch the kids and actually do their schooling. That wasn't possible for someone who had to be… the people we call “essential workers” and then underpay them. So I completely agree with you.

SENATOR TURNER
That’s right. So that's it. Where we agree, I will be the first one to say it and out there pushing and being a champion. And when we do not agree, I am actually going to critique and go to Congress to get all that I can for the constituents who put me there. I do have the courage to ask for more.

And the model that I'm using is not foreign to the 11th congressional district. If you look at all the other Congress, people who came before Congressman Louis Stokes who in fact, Rob, as you know, was the first Black Congress person in the entire state of Ohio, how was that done? They pushed the status quo to say, “Wait a minute. What's going on right now is right. The African-American community does not have representation.”

Had he and his brother, Congressman Stokes, by way of example, just went along to get along, we would never had that seat. And what did that seat do? It paved the pathway for another seat to come along which is the seat that is in Columbus right now -- just another opportunity.

But the 11th congressional district, which was the 21st congressional district, is the only majority-minority district in the state of Ohio and even that, because of demographics, may not be the case in 2022.

And then you also have Congresswoman Marsha Fudge who is now secretary of HUD, which I am excited about for our state -- not just my district but our state -- that we share and love in common.

But even when she was the president of the Congressional Black Caucus and she was asked the question about challenging then President Barack Obama… And I'm paraphrasing her. But she made it very clear as I am right now, “When we agree with the President, we agree. And when we don't agree, we're going to say so.”

ROB
Yeah. One of the issues, I think, in terms of Ohio and why progressives and democrats have a hard time getting elected statewide, is that we don't do, from my perspective, a good enough job in activating our base, working with our base, understanding our base, framing the issues around and fighting for them and having a long-term engagement with them.

In Cleveland, when you talked about our ancestors and folks that really helped built… like the Louis Stokes of the world, I agree with you, they definitely built a foundation for us to be here.

I will say, after them, my perspective is that, for whatever reasons and a whole bunch of reasons, there was some drop off.

And I can tell you this, and I can give my honest perspective from Cleveland, I didn't feel like we didn't have people activated and inspired in a way for us to really make sure that we can do what Georgia did, like really have people engaged. When people have a mayor's race, almost no one comes out. I believe it was something miserable -- below 10%.

You got a whole sets of folks that seem to feel hopelessness when it comes to their government who represents them. At least that's my perspective from… Even though I don't live in Cleveland, I spent a lot of time there running when I ran for statewide office.

What do you think you can do… Well I don't know if you agree with that assessment.

SENATOR TURNER
I do.

ROB
You do?

SENATOR TURNER
I do.

ROB
If you do, what do you think can be done from your position if you get elected to help really change that?

SENATOR TURNER
One, it’s really simple, is to get out there among the people. And I know with COVID, that's trying to figure out how do we continue to be safe and also be [3D - 16:13] again.

ROB
Yeah, I know. Right?

SENATOR TURNER
Yeah. But it's old-fashioned. I just see promise in the problem. And to me, the promise is we can certainly find ways to do things differently. And matters of the heart actually matter. We're not going to penetrate people through the head. You got to penetrate them through the heart first and then that percolates to the head.

And what I mean by that is that we just have to get out there and really talk to the people and hear their voices -- What are their hopes, their dreams? What are their fears? What are their challenges? And how do they see government trying to help to change their material conditions?

I believe that one of the reasons why people don't turn out to vote, especially in areas where the social and economic challenges are really, really heavy, is because they have not seen changes in their material lives.

So from a logical standpoint… Maybe not to you and I because we’re… We believe in the power of government. That's why you and I both have run and other people have ran to really change that and force power to answer to the needs of the people. But if you go year after year after year and it's really not answering to your needs, even just superficially answering to your needs, you can just throw your hands up and say, “Why am I doing this anymore?” That's logical. That makes sense.
ROB
Right.

SENATOR TURNER
So democrats are going to have to do a better job of not just talking “to” the people but talking “with” the people and really centering and understanding where they're coming from.

And by extension, I would say that our state voted for Senator Obama and then President Obama twice -- two times. I believe we still have that muscle memory and that we can do things differently. But we got to travel the state and answer to the cries of the people and not get so offended when they start to critique our party.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
We’ve never done an autopsy, so to speak, too. Like a real deep-seated, “What are the things we do right? What are the things we do wrong? And how can we make changes so that people are more motivated to come out to vote?”

ROB
Yeah. It is matters of the heart. I believe you're right. I believe it also has to do with knowing how to frame things from conviction. And I think, often, democrats try to frame things from a way that, “Okay, how do I do this in the least offensive way” or “How do I do this in a way that I can thread the needle?”

What I tell people is I'm not against moderates. I think everything in moderation including moderation. Some things you got to have some conviction for at some point, right? So you got to have like… So it's good. Again, no problem being a moderate.

But what is it that you are willing to walk over fire for? People have to feel that. You got to be able to express that. So what do you think in terms of how do we get ourselves to frame the narrative better? What are some issues? How would you do it? How would you help lead that because I do think we do it very poorly.

And I'll just say this, to go back to my experience. I remember when we ran for statewide office and… I can't remember the name of the bill. I think it was “Issue One” and it was talking about reforming the criminal justice system.

Actually, a very popular thing to do when you talk about it. Some democrats did a poll and said, “What's going to pull back” and it said, “Of course, it's going to pull back if you talk about it like that.”

Someone asked me, like, “Well, why do you support this? Is this the right way to do it?” I said, “Well, let's have a constitutional amendment.” I said, “I guess the better way to do it is to have legislators do their job.” But they haven't done it.

When I answered it that way, I had some people in the party said, “That's a really good way to answer it.” I said, “Yes, that's how you answer with conviction versus being scared.”

How do we get them to understand this? And hopefully that'll help them, I don't know, win more. How do we understand how to frame the narrative and get it right versus having them frame the narrative against us?

SENATOR TURNER
Authenticity matters to people. I'm sure you have encountered people and folks that are joining us on this conversation, joining us today, you have people who don't agree with you.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
That's the first thing you want them to say is, “You know what? I don't agree with him but he is convicted. I feel his authenticity. He told me the truth or she told me the truth.” That's really what you want.

You’ll never get 100% agreement. If two people always agree -- I think this is a Chinese proverb -- one is not needed.

ROB
[Laughter]

SENATOR TURNER
That's true. I mean, it really is through the debate process and the exchange of ideas and the getting of understanding that we can open up bridges of opportunity. But not to be so afraid to offend people that now, not only are you not telling the truth but you got to revision its history.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
When I think about critical race theory and how some republicans are just trying to erase the drama, trauma and inhumanity of child slavery or the stealing of the Native American--

ROB
Hey, Senator Turner, they're trying to erase January 6. [Laughter] Right? They're trying to erase like a few months back like it didn't happen.

SENATOR TURNER
That’s true. You know what -- true.

ROB
It is what happens when you let folks… And I say that I feel really passionate about this because at the end of the day, a lot of the debates we have matter. But some of them don't.

What we have is we have a whole side of this country, a political party, that is willing to just destroy the truth and keep power. And I think the mistake we make is, “Okay, let's figure out how to negotiate with people that are trying to support insurrectionists.”

At this point, we have to figure out how we can frame the narrative to bring people along to make them understand what has happened. How do we fight this propaganda machine because I also want to go back to that because I think… Republicans are so good at this, right?

SENATOR TURNER
They are.

ROB
They really are. They know how to speak to their base and figure out how to motivate them. You go back to 2018. The biggest issue for first-time republicans… Do you know what it was?

SENATOR TURNER
What?

ROB
It was immigration because President Trump spent like six months talking about people in Central America are coming over. And then once that was over, you never hear about that again. But they're able to trigger, trigger, and make them believe. Now they believe false conspiracies about the Coronavirus, whatever it is. And they're so good at that.

And I think not understanding how big of a threat that is... We have people that believe whole realities that are not true. And then we're trying to fight them to say, “We can reason with people.” Some people, we can't reason with. We got to figure out how to fight the propaganda we're going against.

I don't know if you have an opinion on this about how we really tackle this -- the strong right wing propaganda that is so dangerous, I think, to this country.
SENATOR TURNER
You hit the nail on the head. We just got to… Confession is good for the soul.

ROB
[Laughter]

SENATOR TURNER
There are some people… And hopefully, that group is very small. That would be our hope. There are some people that you just can't reason with and we got to be okay with that.

I also believe that there are some people that given more information and convicting, again, their heart… Like connecting with them not on a head level but on a heart level.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
What is it that I could say to them to, at least, cause in the pause and just think even if they never come all the way? To me, that is the group, and then by extension, the group of people who are already predisposed to be with us.

When we talk about justice, what does that look like? Well, if you are a family farmer, for example, in Iowa, what justice looks like for you is not to be overran by factory farms, by corporate farming. Even though that population is mainly white and mainly rural, when you drive down some--

I mean, driving down the highway where the stitch is so thick that you’d cut it from these factory farms, talking to people who can't put their clothes out on a hanger if they wanted to or only can come outside at a certain time of the day or have the residue on their homes... Think about that. So what matters to that group of people?

And even though they may lean a little more conservative, I will tell you, as I traveled this country with Senator Sanders, I was able to have these conversations. The number one thing that was animating family farmers -- people may be shocked to hear this -- was health care. And you know why -- because the cost of health care for them is an extraordinary burden like it is for most Americans. And if they are married, one spouse has to work a regular job to get health care so that then they can keep the farm going.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
So health care… universal health care was something that was very important to them. That might not seem like… I mean, you would have never probably guessed that -- most people. But now, talking it through you, that makes a whole lot of sense.

So am I walking up to those people talking about progressivism just straight? No. I'm talking to them about their particular needs. And in that need, we find commonality.

ROB
I completely agree. That's the way they approach it. So let's say the election goes like you want, what's the number one thing you want to accomplish within your first term, if you can go back to people and say, “This is what we accomplished”?

SENATOR TURNER
Yeah, twofold. One, definitely is pushing and joining on legislation that I think will change the material conditions of the residents of the 11 congressional district, our state and nation by extension.

And I always say those three things only because there’s very few things that a member of Congress does that only impacts their district which is--

ROB
Sure.

SENATOR TURNER
We were connected here. Congress handles national and also International. So it's all of those things even though we're elected from a district.

And then back to something else that you and I have been talking about, and we've been through this entire conversation, is the heart of the matter. I am going to get out into this community and let people know, first of all, thank you and I'm here to serve you.

And I am going to go on listening tours to hear what people have to say -- both their hopes, their dreams, their fears and how they see themselves in the future -- to try to motivate people that although things look bleak… And in some cases, they really are. This is not just [making it up in the head - 26:19]. It’s real.

But just because it is reality in this moment, “if we plot, plan, strategize, organize and mobilize” to quote a dear friend of mine, “Killer Mike” -- Michael Render – then what is the reality today does not have to be the reality tomorrow.

ROB
Great job.

SENATOR TURNER
So I want to do a heart-soul tour to really tap in and then take all of that and have that continue to fuel me as I serve and try to push policies that will change material conditions.
ROB
All right. I want to switch to a little more personal questions for you. Can you think about a time that you failed in your life -- it doesn't have to be politically. It could be professionally, personally, however you want to talk about it -- and how that ended up being a lesson for you and helping you more in the future?

SENATOR TURNER
I'm stuck on the political side. But I will say--

ROB
That’s fine. You can do the political side.

SENATOR TURNER
Running for Secretary of State, I would not call that a failure because I took the risk and I knew that it was going to be like walking through hell with gasoline clothing on.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
I didn't win the race. So if people want to purely say, “Well, you lost…” I did lose the race but in that, I gained a whole lot. And I really do believe that I educated a lot of people across the state. But for my presence and running, things would have been different.

And we need to definitely redefine what “Losing” means. I mean, you ran, too. You didn't win the race but your very presence changed things.

ROB
Absolutely.

SENATOR TURNER
It's the same thing. Even in looking at the presidential election, you and folks know who my candidate was side-by-side. Both times he ran. Yeah, he didn't win the race but the progressive movement has definitely changed the political move. Not only the move but what is on the agenda. We're talking about legalizing marijuana. Talking about--

ROB
I mean, Biden is way more progressive because of it.

SENATOR TURNER
He would have been--

ROB
Yes, exactly.
SENATOR TURNER
Yeah, absolutely. So to me, that is a win. So we have to find the positives even when something does not go exactly the way you wanted it to go. And then I will say--

ROB
I have a quick quote that Eric Thomas, a friend of mine, said. “You don't lose because you lost. You lost because you quit.” That's about also going forward and figuring out the opportunities with… Because your loss is really an opportunity to learn. And I've had much greater opportunities than I wouldn't have had but for my run, too. -- Go ahead.

SENATOR TURNER
I totally agree with you. And just to pull something from the personal side, too, is, you know, growing up in a family that was definitely working poor and just trying to find myself over the years… And things happened because life is not a straight line. And things happen in--

ROB
No, it’s definitely not.

SENATOR TURNER
Working to shore up my family's financial future, made a lot of mistakes along the way or what I would like to say is, “My lived experience is ripe with ups and downs.”

And I just want people to know that to err is human. I think somebody said, “To err is human.” And we all have lived experiences. Sometimes, they're pure mistakes. Sometimes, they're mistakes just because you took a risk. Those things happened to me along the way.

And as I look back on those, I have grown so much from those painful lived experiences and it has made me a better person, better able to do certain things whether it's financially, spiritually. You know, you just grow. In the moment, it hurts. But I want people to know, we can't wallow in that. Nobody is perfect -- and I mean, nobody's perfect.

ROB
Nobody.

SENATOR TURNER
But it is how you come out of that struggle -- what you glean from it and how you use the pain, the challenge or the difficulty to set you up to do a thing in a different way.

ROB
Yeah, I agree. Okay, what advice would you give your younger self and what advice would you ignore?

SENATOR TURNER
I would say, “Girl, oh, it is going to be a hard, exciting journey but you are built for this moment. You really are. You're going to get through it.”

And the other is “To be yourself.” You know, it took me a while to really center into who I am. And that's why I think maturity comes with really knowing, “You know what? I'm grown. I have agency and I can speak my truth.”

I would say to my younger self, “Don't let anybody talk you out of being uniquely who you are and speaking your truth.”

And I will say to you, growing up in the 80s -- I was born in the late ‘60s and coming of age in the ‘70s. I'm in high school during the ‘80s -- the whole colorism, I want to throw out there, really hit my generation really hard. And I am that bubbling brown-skinned sister… dark chocolate sister that really…

ROB
Proud of it. Soak it all up.

SENATOR TURNER
…endured… Right. Not just racism or anti blackness from a systemic perspective but also what colorism does to really kind of clout, for me -- and I've talked to lots of darker skinned people who have endured this, too -- your sense of who you are, your beauty…

ROB
Absolutely.

SENATOR TURNER
…your worth. And I had to navigate those growing pains.

My mother, and you've heard me tell this story before, died at the young age of 42 years old. My mother was lighter-skinned. She was considered a “Redbone.” And I do remember my mother just trying to pour into me… But even when your parents lift you, they are not always able to protect you from the messages that come from outside forces even like the commercials we would see and who we saw on TV.

I must tell you, that I wished 13-year old Nina had the Black Panther.

ROB
[Laughter] Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
I literally watched that movie at least five or six times a year if not more because of how it positions our people, number one, and two, a beautiful rainbow that is blackness shown in that movie.
ROB
That's awesome. Two more questions. You have a committee of three, living or dead, to advise you on politics, life, business, personal. Who would those three people be and why?

SENATOR TURNER
Only three? Jeez.

ROB
You get three.

SENATOR TURNER
Well, May 19th, today that we are talking, is Minister Malcolm X's birthday.

ROB
Oh, it is? I don't even know that. That’s good to know.

SENATOR TURNER
Yes, it is. I think he would be 96 years old if he were still alive. He’d definitely be on my committee for sure.

ROB
Why?

SENATOR TURNER
Because Minister Malcolm X spoke a certain truth that really resonated with urban black… to black people in cities.

ROB
Like no one else.

SENATOR TURNER
Like nobody else. And I do believe that he had to understand… I mean he critiqued the system -- truly. It was a hard--

ROB
He did. And by the way, just so you know, one of my goals is to really create a whole docuseries… Well, actually, some dramatization of his experience through his life because he lived such an interesting life. And certainly, no other person spoke the urban black experience like Malcolm X and no one else lived it to the way he did it. -- Go ahead.

SENATOR TURNER
Yeah. Oh my god, I'm so excited that you're doing that. If I could be helpful--

ROB
That’s some years in the future. I got a few other things to do but that's coming.

SENATOR TURNER
I love that you're doing that. So please, if I could be helpful in any way, let me know. But you know, he has a quote, and this is not verbatim, where he said, “I'm for truth no matter who it is for or who it is against or justice, no matter who is for, who is against.” And that's a powerful statement…

ROB
It is.

SENATOR TURNER
…because sometimes, you’re laying it out that you're going to bump yet some folks.

ROB
Yeah.

SENATOR TURNER
So he would be on my committee. My maternal grandmother would definitely be on that committee. I mean, she is such a big reason as to why I do what I do and think the way that I think. Although she only had a third grade education, she had what we call, in the African-American community, “mother wit” and just a PhD in life. She was born in 1915 and just a spectacularly wise woman. The three bone story that I tell all the time--

ROB
Yeah. You got to tell it. What's the story?

SENATOR TURNER
It’s the wishbone, jaw bone, the backbone. My grandmother would say that the wishbone is for hoping and praying because hope is the motivator; the dream is the driver. The jaw bone is for lifting your voice and speaking a certain truth to power -- I'm paraphrasing her on that -- and then the backbone is for standing, that you're going to go through a whole lot of stuff in this world. You can't have a testimony without a test. You got to have a backbone to keep standing through it all.

ROB
Great.

SENATOR TURNER
You know, that story, people love it all over the country. It doesn't matter what age--

ROB
I remember that story. Yeah, I still remember it.

SENATOR TURNER
I wish she was around to know how famous that story has become and how beloved… You and I were talking about how to touch people. There's a universal language. I think storytelling is one. Music is another.

ROB
Absolutely.

SENATOR TURNER
Storytelling is the other.

And the other person is… You’re plucking me down to three. I hate this. This is so hard. I would say Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm, unbought and unbossed. And that really animates my run right now.

It becomes increasingly hard. As you laid out, a very toxic environment, not necessarily coming from republicans when you're in the primary but coming from people who call themselves “democrats” and the forces that bear down on you if they don't want you to win.

Her whole notion of being able to have the courage in 1972 when she did not have the support of the black political class… She didn't have the support of white feminists. They even went another direction. Imagine that. -- No, we can't imagine that. Her tenacity and perseverance and just audacity to say, “I see a need. And I don't have to be saluted or uplifted by these people with these fancy titles. All I need are the people and this is why I am running. I am unbought and unbossed.” That's my committee.

ROB
That's it. That's it. That's a good committee. You kind of answered my last question but you might answer differently. If you had a theme in life or saying, a billboard, what would that say and why?

SENATOR TURNER
Well it doesn't get any better than “Unbought and Unbossed.”

ROB
Yeah. [Laughter] I thought you kind of answered the question with how you answered the last question. Senator Turner, good luck in your race. I'm really inspired by you and all that you're doing. And I just want to thank you for taking the time to be with us today.

SENATOR TURNER
Thank you. It's a pleasure joining you. Please have me back. Good luck in all that you're doing. And I'm looking forward to that project you're going to do about Minister Malcolm X.

ROB
And I will have you back. I promise that.

SENATOR TURNER
Okay.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]