ROB RICHARDSON
All right. Everybody, welcome back. We're on our closing keynote here with one of my friends in all things tech and all things happy. -- Noelle Silver, how are you doing?

NOELLE SILVER
That's right. I’m great. So good to be here with you again. It's exciting.

ROB
Again, yeah. It’s good. So we had a lot of conversations today and lately about art and equity and specifically, we've talked a lot about technology. You are a tech evangelist, spreading the good news and spreading the good gospel of the opportunities with tech and that you don't have to be an expert in engineering to be in tech or any of that because when people think of art, a lot of people don't… Some do especially now with what we're going to talk about but I think a lot of people are still wrapping their mind around, “Well what does technology have to do with art?” Noelle, what would you just say to that if someone asked you that question?

NOELLE
I actually think it's interesting because I had this amazing opportunity in my mind to go and work with the Metropolitan Museum of Art and I kind of battled that exact question where I was talking to the curators and all these people that have been doing art for decades and they're like, “What are you data scientists going to even do here” or worse, “Whatever you're going to do, I don't want any part of it.”

ROB
Yeah. “It's going to corrupt the art.” Yeah, I’ve heard that, too.

NOELLE
Exactly. So I had a really… I mean I loved it because we did a hackathon with them which is my… You know, I always encourage people. If you can do a hackathon with people who have a problem and put together people who know technology to potentially solve that problem, like magic can happen. It started off very much like a high school dance – you know, the curators on one side and the data scientists on the other -- and everyone kind of like, “I don't know if we're going to all get along.” But by the end of it, we--

We did a whole bunch of things. One, we realized that technology… You can't be prescriptive ahead of time in a space like art. Tech can show up in a bunch of different places.

So one of the things I always like to do is figure out, “What are the challenges? What are the things that are happening in art that are just irritating to even have to deal with?” Like, why can't it just be about the art? And that's where tech can come in, right? Tech can abstract out the things that are not awesome to deal with -- everything from just like even dynamic pricing of art. We'll talk about security of assets.
There are so many different areas that an artist themselves may not necessarily even want to deal with. And that's what we found. At the Metropolitan Museum of Art, we built seven different projects out of that hackathon and all of them -- the artists, the curators -- were like, “If that works, that's awesome.” Right?

ROB
Yeah.

NOELLE
We were all like family when we left. We were hugging goodbye. It was awesome. The contrast is so interesting because the first thought was like, “You said, “What are you going to do here” and “Don't mess anything up.”” Like, “We're good. Art is fine. We don't need that” when actually there was some opportunity and we did find little pockets of ways to make the artist's life even better.

ROB
Yeah. I mean you said it best, and I’ve heard it said different ways. When people approach technology or an issue, a lot of times, some people, particularly in the tech world, approach it wrong. Like, “What's the best technology we can have?” No. “What problem are you trying to solve?” That's more important.

NOELLE
That’s exactly right.

ROB
You can figure out the technology. Like, “What problem are you trying to solve and how can you make the world better for the problem or the people or the issues that you're trying to solve?”

NOELLE
That’s right.

ROB
So when you look at art, there are a lot of opportunities there. We're going to go over some stuff you did. But I want to talk a little bit in the nerd space for a little while. I know you did some stuff with art and artificial intelligence. How do you combine art and artificial intelligence? An artist might say, “Well is that going to change my work? Does that change the nature of meeting artists when you could just have a computer just decide what people want?”

NOELLE
Oh gosh, yeah. Yeah, this is one of those use cases, right, where we build again in… which is basically a neural network that would generate art from existing art. And it's that moment where an artist is like, “That's not cool. That's not art. You can't do that. You can't take my work and then use a computer and then call the new stuff “art.” That's not possible.”

But the reality is we got there, right? We showed them how interesting it would be for a child or a middle schooler or maybe someone like my son who has Down syndrome to be able to now have the ability to create something that they themselves can own with the augmentation of something like an AI model.

So this model would take aspects, patterns, that were identified in Renaissance art or in Industrial Revolution-type pieces in things that were thousands-of-years-old sculptures and allow him to create a title piece or allowed him to create a mosaic in a way that is not accessible to the world.

So it really does force us to expand out our concept of who is art for, who gets to play, who gets to participate, who gets to be the artist. And what does it mean for that? Does it make my son any less of an artist because he leverages a piece of software to help him ideate and create something from his ideas?

So yeah, that was the beginning of our conversation with this hackathon was, “Is this not damaging the purity of the art form?” And we got there at the end of the day. Everyone ended up realizing more people are served when you expand your concept of what art is and how it can be accessible to more people.

And I’ll tell you, we were featured on NBC Nightly News as a result of this project because we just wanted to make art accessible…

ROB
I remember.

NOELLE
… through voice technology, like just through Alexa, to be able to say, “Hey device, could you tell me more about this artwork? Tell me more about this artist” and then be able to kind of go down a voice-controlled path to art you would have never seen before and make it accessible to people who would never walk the halls of an art museum like my son or my kids. My four-year-old will never do that. But you give them an engaging experience that walks them through or better yet, a VR experience that walks them through a virtual museum. All of a sudden, the world opens up to people who… You know, it's different than the classic 1% of the 1% percent that some of these museums were catered towards.

ROB
That’s exactly right. And as we move on and really talk about NFT… As you all have known, if you've been at any of our conference today, you know that Disruption Now is launching a global interactive platform for black and brown artists and collectors to sell and collect NFT art which is non-fungible tokens. I’m going to let the tech person explain a little bit more.
I’ve heard the same thing, Noelle -- the same conversation you had about artificial intelligence with art. I’ve heard the same thing about NFTs. Like all you're doing is… I don't believe this obviously because we have the platform. But some people have this belief that it can never be as valuable as the physical piece and this is not art because I guess it's digitally online. How do you answer that? I mean you've kind of answered it already.

But now the NFTs are kind of… That definitely has some momentum. Just like a little while back, I want to say that NFT sold for Christie’s for $69 or $62 million-something. Absurd but like… yes. So clearly, there's a market for it. So what is your response to that?

NOELLE
That's right. Yes, I remember. There's a bunch of memes about this now. It's like, “Post graphic art every day for 14 years and you'll make $69 million” or whatever that one piece, right?

The medium is changing. But now I think, especially in this pandemic… Hopefully, we're now coming to the other side of it. But we've realized like “in-person,” the definition of that is different today. I think that there is an opportunity, especially with this concept of NFTs, the ability to stamp authenticity.

I know a lot of people in my space are interested in looking at the area of deep fakes or the ability to take content, augment it and the general public may not even know the difference.

ROB
What's a “Deep fake” to make sure people know?

NOELLE
So for those of you who are new to this idea, it's fascinating and you should definitely look more into it. But it's basically the ability to create synthesized media. And chances are you've seen it already. It's everything from a Snapchat filter that changes your eye and hair color all the way to superimposing Jlo's face onto mine and I’m having this conversation and I look like I’m JLo.

But the benefit, of course, of this is that it's actually… It is artificial intelligence. It's a neural network of patterns that it's identified. So you feed it a bunch of information, let's say JLo. Feed it a bunch of JLo video and now you can superimpose it on anyone's face and make it look because of those patterns. It can just reproduce those patterns for you. So it's fascinating.

However, just to go back to the point, it's dangerous, right? If I’m an artist, I’m like, “Well how do I keep someone from just saying, “This is my art” or knocking--

ROB
Exactly.

NOELLE
Right? This is not a new problem though which is what I always like to say especially with artists and musicians. Knockoff artists? This is not a new problem. We've been dealing with people, copycat artists, doing all this. But now with technology, we actually have the ability to provide content and source protection. We can stamp authenticity. We can track authenticity thanks to the beauty of blockchain -- the ability to create a series of authenticators that can make sure that this thing you're getting is unique in and of itself.

You’re talking about NFTs. I love this concept. I was introduced to it by an organization because they created an NFT play… It was like a baseball card but it was of me and a bunch of other influencers. We all got our own dedicated allotment of these NFTs that represent it. It was like information about me, my career. It's kind of silly to say it out loud but I thought it was really cool because no one could reproduce that.

I had 50 of them. I gave them out to 50 of my friends. There'll never be anymore. Like that sense of scarcity is the model that art thrives in, right? Now, no one's going to be willing to pay for… Maybe one day but--

ROB
Hey look, let's project it.

NOELLE
Yeah. [Laughter]

ROB
Let’s say one day… And I know you. Just don't forget your friend. Somebody's going to pay a million dollars a pop for one of these things. Hey, let's project it.

NOELLE
Yeah, exactly. 20 years, it’d be like, “Oh my gosh, you got one of Noelle’s early NFTs.” [Laughter] But it's the same for art. We have the ability now to create this scarcity model with things that are stamped with… It's literally the same as in art having a number on the back of your reproduction, right?

ROB
Yep.

NOELLE
We have the ability to do that today in a way that's never been possible before. And it's all because of things that have happened in the finance industry, right?

ROB
Yeah.

NOELLE
If we had NFTs 10 years ago, we wouldn't have believed it. It wouldn't have been accessible to us as a medium. But because of all the work that's gone into blockchain and cryptocurrency, all the trust that's been built in that industry, us watching the value grow and stay… And now other companies are buying into this technology, like this is happening.

ROB
Yeah, it's a revolution.

NOELLE
It's a revolution.

ROB
And it's a disruption.

NOELLE
Yeah, that’s right.

ROB
Few things: As you know, we're actually doing this. We're creating a disrupter series. I love to have you be a part of it -- creators and artists that are a part of it. That's going to be our initial NFT launch for our website -- the disrupters. That's exactly what we're doing.

NOELLE
So cool.

ROB
So it's interesting that you had that same concept a while back. I would tell people when they look at it… because there’s a lot of questions there, people that just say, “Okay, I got to have the physical paintings. Where do I have it?” And there's a few things I say to those people. And I want to really break down because you said a lot very quickly so I want to at least get to a few points.

One, this is, if you will, an iteration of the internet. And you and I are seasoned enough to have been through all three phases. So the initial phase was the kind of text-based internet that everybody saw -- kind of pre-social media. Right now is kind of Internet 2.0. It’s what we're in. It's the centralization of social media -- Facebook, Google -- centered on collecting data, centered on having just a few entities control a lot of data and a lot of information.

The opportunity now, and I would say for artists and others, is that this is now the decentralization of the internet and allows more users… because that's what blockchain technology is. And what makes this moment different and unique from before is that--

We've always had digital art as you said but it was so easy to copy and it was no way to authenticate it. Now because of blockchain technology, you can authenticate it. You can know Noelle’s art piece. You can trace it back and see this is hers. And can someone copy it? The answer is “Yes” but people can easily tell it's a fake.

NOELLE
Yeah, exactly.

ROB
So you know it's not worth it. People have been copying the Mona Lisa. People have been making fake Gucci bags forever.

NOELLE
That's right. That's right.

ROB
Right? You know what does that do to the value of Gucci and Mona Lisa? It makes them more valuable.

NOELLE
That's right.

ROB
So I just tell people like, “It's a mind shift right now.” People are seeing this like, yes, you can physically store it too because you can get a digital canvas but it's a mindset of how art is just being distributed. It's no different than now how we see movies. Blockbuster could have bought Netflix for a little bit. And I bet they wish they would have because they thought people are always going to… Think about this, Noelle. They were probably like, “People are always going to want to just have a physical copy of the movie and watch it.”

NOELLE
Yes, that’s exactly the same.

ROB
No.

NOELLE
No, they don't. That's right. And that's exactly where we're at now, I think. I mean there are people… Yes, maybe the physical one. Like you could mass produce an image that's beautiful and sell it on a postcard in a coffee shop or sell it as a desktop background but there are people that want the masterpiece, that want the digitally-signed connection to the artist hanging in their living room in a digital canvas.

It’s just like fashion, right? It starts off on the runway with very few people who have access to it but anyone who is looking is like, “Well I could do something like that. That's cool.”

There's always this ecosystem of art. But it's the top echelon of that ecosystem that now has an opportunity to evolve and innovate so that the work that you create can actually be distributed and protected. Like, “Oh how many--”

We've all watched really sad scenarios where physical buildings have burned and physical assets have been destroyed where we now have another opportunity to preserve content, to preserve art in a new way, and like I said, create an upper echelon of people who want to invest in being the stewards of that art.

I know my grandparents, they had Picasso and like all of these different artworks. It was like a family heirloom. We coveted it as a family. So I think that same thing will happen as we migrate into this new mindset around digital authentication.

ROB
And for the artists themselves, and why I’m attracted to it, is that it really allows… We talked about really empowering communities and really creating opportunities for more equity. You can make money off of your secondary sales. So if you're starting off as an artist--

NOELLE
Yeah, exactly.

ROB
And generally, this is how it works in the physical world: You sell a piece of art. Maybe you sell it for, let's say, $500 and then 10 years later, somebody goes on and they sell it for $5 million. You get none of that. You get none of that, right? I guess you get the exposure that your art sold for that amount. So on future works, you can do that but your past work, you can't get any equity. What you can do now, and what we do on Disruption Now, is that we make sure that we build an equity on the front end so you get royalty for life.

NOELLE
Exactly.

ROB
You get that built into the system on the front end so you don't have to necessarily sell so short on the front end and hope that it pays off in the long run in the back end. And if it doesn't--

A lot of times, artists don't even get their work until they're older or they're not even here so maybe their family can get an opportunity to actually make some of the money versus just going to private investors.

NOELLE
Exactly. It becomes generational. Exactly right.

ROB
Right. This is the pivotal moment. We've had a few of them more recently than ever in history.

NOELLE
Mm-hmm.

ROB
But we're at one of these moments now where this is an opportunity where folks should get into… shift the minds, start experimenting. So we encourage people to do it. There is no disadvantage to doing this. And there's no advantage, I think, to waiting too long and seeing how the whole thing… If you’re an artist and you’re around--

NOELLE
That’s right. And tinkering is where all the value is, right? How many people wished they were tinkering around with one bitcoin 10 years ago?

ROB
Exactly.

NOELLE
Just tinker with it. Play around with it. See what it can do because that's where innovation happens. And then you stumble upon greatness in those moments. But if you're not even there, right… It's just like the lotto. You got to get a ticket if you even want to be in the game.

So yeah, there's this moment that you really have to dive in and just be willing… It doesn't have to be a huge investment. It doesn't even have to be a huge effort. Just get your toes in the water and be part of the velocity of the industry.

ROB
Yeah. So explain to people if they're trying to understand, “Okay, if I bought an NFT, where does it go? Where is it stored? Where would I go find my NFT if I bought it?”

NOELLE
There's actually a platform that provides them. I mean this is one of those things. It's almost like banks. So there'll be a collection of these kind of middle managers of these types of assets.

When I got my NFTs -- my little Noelle baseball cards -- I went to an NFT provider and I downloaded them. And those assets really--

ROB
Which one did you go to? OpenSea or… Where'd you go?

NOELLE
Yes. That's exactly right, yeah.

ROB
Okay.

NOELLE
Literally, I got an email from the person who generated the NFTs for me and said, “Go download your NFTs” and so I went and downloaded them. And then I distributed them in the same way. I sent a link to that platform and assigned them to people.

So artists would do the same thing. Musicians even could do the same thing where we have the ability to go in and… You would identify how many pieces of art or how many pieces of content that you want to preserve and then you can assign rights through that system.

ROB
Yeah. Just so you know, there's a lot of folks doing this now that are “mainstream.” So NBA Top Shot, you look at there, they're selling literally collectible moments.

NOELLE
Yes.

ROB
I was talking to folks like, “Wait. What do you mean? That looks like YouTube.” But no. They do it in an interactive way. It's unique. It is not like YouTube. It's like a trading card.

NOELLE
Yeah.

ROB
If people can sell trading cards for a million dollars, you can certainly sell a digital interactive card for a lot of money, too. So again, it's just a mind shift about how we're viewing these things.

NOELLE
Yeah.

ROB
We want people to participate now, not when everybody else does. But there is some caution I would tell people. There are some other websites that do it similarly but what we're working on to making sure that we're working with artists that are established artists, have a good following, produce good art… I do think there are a lot of people just seeing what's happening and throwing it out there and investing in NFTs, not necessarily knowing the value of the art they're buying. My advice to people, and not that I give…I try to give that much advice. I say, one, “Buy art you like, not necessarily make a huge investment right now…”

NOELLE
Exactly.

ROB
…because some of this will be a bubble, I think. But still, there's an opportunity right now. What would you tell people in the opportunity at this point?

NOELLE
So I’ve been, luckily, on the cusp of a bunch of these types of initiatives. Alexa was one of them. Virtualization was another. And what I always encourage people to do is to learn by doing.

And I think you're a great example of this, Rob. Rather than just go and read up and listen, learn by doing. Get one NFT. Build an NFT. It doesn't have to be like crazy. It doesn't have to be a huge investment of time or money but learn by actually implementing it.

And if you're not an implementer, you're not a builder, then align yourself with an organization or a platform such as the platform you're building so that you can be involved because it's literally these moments that define us. It's like being the first 500 users on Clubhouse or being the first 500 video creators on TikTok, right? These moments, they come.

Now I’m getting better at spotting them but for so many years, these moments would happen and I would look over and 10 years will go by and I’m like, “Man, I was there. I was in that meeting,” and I just didn't see it. So I think part of this conversation that we're having is we’re--

This is a moment and you have a chance. You don't have to pay big to play which is unique in this situation. So get involved in these platforms. Figure out a way to contribute. Support an artist by supporting their ability to deliver on this platform. Buy early art on this platform. There's a lot of different ways to engage. But getting engaged is a lot more effective than reading a book about it or listening to a podcast. So I love this.

ROB
Yeah, get involved.

NOELLE
Get involved.

ROB
Noelle, great to have you on.

NOELLE
It was awesome. So great. Thank you so much.

ROB
Thank you.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]