“The way people deal with disappointments are going to essentially determine their future, right? And he would say like, “Disappointments are constant, disappointments are certain but disappointments can be conquered.” -- Sevetri Wilson

ROB
Welcome to Disruption Now. I’m your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. It's an honor here to be on with Sevetri Wilson who is an entrepreneur. She has pretty much been an entrepreneur since she got out of college. She knew what she wanted to do. She went right to it. She definitely fits the profile of what we like to have here on Disruption. She doesn't fit into the narrative, she disrupts the narrative, and we're honor to have her on.

She started Resilia which is a company that used to be “Exempt Me.” I believe that was the name. She saw early on there was opportunity to scale it to make it so the services she was offering she could really help nonprofit scale, help them enterprise. She has raised, I think, over $3 million -- one of only 11 black women to do so. I believe the only one in New Orleans to do so. I’ve actually had at least one of those other black women on -- Diane Dixon.

SEVETRI
Yeah, Diane out of Ohio.

ROB
Yeah. Of course, I’m out of Cincinnati. -- So she's doing some amazing things that you're going to learn about. We're going to talk about her journey. We're going to talk about the bumps along the road and how she's still growing. I’m sure it's not a linear path. We're just excited to have her on. I got a chance to actually learn about her through a… I can't remember which magazine it was but it was talking about black women who have become millionaires and how they did it. -- So Sevetri, we're just honored to have you on. How are you doing?

SEVETRI
I’m doing great. How are you?

ROB
I’m doing well. -- You know, I forgot to mention that she is a member of the wonderful lovely ladies of Alpha Kappa Alpha. We love that [inaudible - 01:55].

SEVETRI
Oh we can’t forget that.

ROB
Yeah. I don't know how I forgot that but I just did. But I made sure to put it in, Sevetri, so you don’t have to give me [inaudible - 02:01].

SEVETRI
Thanks. I appreciate that.
ROB
How’s it going for you in this Covid craziness world? How has adjustment been, just getting used to business in this environment? What's that been like?

SEVETRI
Oh man, it's been a challenge, for sure. I think it's been a challenge for everyone. Sometimes, I feel like when I talk about it, I’m preaching to the choir. I think that people have had different challenges based on what you're doing. But we definitely did what everyone else did, right -- shut down the office, went home.

Our team is still working from home both in our New York and New Orleans office although the office is open so they can go in and out. So we do have some team members who are going in and out.

When Covid began to creep up -- as far as New Orleans, it was in March -- we, essentially, were in the process of raising a series A round.

ROB
Oh wow.

SEVETRI
So you can imagine that, right?

ROB
The timing is so great, right? Yeah, what a great timing.

SEVETRI
And I remember like the onset of Covid coming and I’m telling my attorney like, “Look, we need to go ahead and get this round closed.” We were able to successfully get it closed and so we raised another $8 million for the company in March.

ROB
Congratulations. Awesome.

SEVETRI
Yeah. We were fortunate, right, because it actually put us in a good financial cash position to continue to grow the company during Covid. We've added a little over 15 employees since March happened and so it's really been a whole another test to try to literally build a plane while you're…

ROB
While you’re flying.

SEVETRI
…while you’re flying, right? So like a whole another layer to that.

ROB
Yeah. Build the plane while you're flying, while there's a whole bunch of weather you didn't expect while you're flying the plane.

SEVETRI
Yes. I mean across the board, from the pandemic to…

ROB
The protest.

SEVETRI
…the Black Lives Matter movement and murder of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor to unprecedented hurricanes here in the gulf, it’s like--

ROB
Oh I forgot. You’re in the gulf, yeah. Hoo!

SEVETRI
It’s been a crazy, crazy year. And the election. It’s a lot.

ROB
Yeah, this is the craziest election we've seen in our lifetime. I know people talk about craziness in the election and politics but this is a whole new level of crazy that we need to change very quickly.

SEVETRI
Yeah, it is.

ROB
Yeah. I tell folks… and this is not an equivalent. I saw on your Twitter that you talked about Kanye running for president. I actually love Kanye, too, but he's just been--

SEVETRI
Man, Kanye was my favorite artist.

ROB
Me, too.

SEVETRI
People don't understand how much I just like… I’m from New Orleans. After Katrina, he was the one on stage…
ROB
I remember.

SEVETRI
…like, “George Bush don’t care about blacks.” I was like, “That's my boy.” Man, I reminisce.

ROB
And then he went to the sunken place. I don't know what happened to the brother. I think he is a genius. I don't know how we got here but just very quickly on this, I think he is a genius. I just think he just lost his way. It just tells you that no matter how talented you are, people need support. They need mental support. They need spiritual support. They need that. And when you don't have an anchor around you--

And I do really fundamentally believe that his mother passing would have… I’m really close to my mom. I can see and understand how that can be a life-changing event in your life. And if your foundation is not right, that can knock you off. I mean you remember--

SEVETRI
Yeah. I lost my mother at 21.

ROB
Wow.

SEVETRI
And I tell people all the time that I feel that people who do lose their mother or the person that's closest to them… as I say, like the person that I knew for sure 100% have my back, no matter what, is taken from you, that you generally go two ways, right? Either you spiral, which is what I think kind of happened to Kanye to your point, or you just like plow forward, right?

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
I’ve just seen like a combination of those based on people who I’ve known who are super close to their mothers and they lost them unexpectedly which is how I lost my mother.

ROB
Absolutely, yeah. First of all, I’m sorry for your loss. I would say you learn how to cope but it's never easy. I actually lost my sister this year. We lost her at the beginning of 2020. It’s hard for a lot of reasons. And also just to see the pain in my parents’ eyes has been tough. I can't imagine losing my mother that early.

And this brings me to a good point of something I wanted to discuss with you particularly how your upbringing may have influenced who you are right now. I didn't know the story of your mother but I did do some research and found out the story of your father passing away. And someone was--

I can't remember who the person was. His adopted sister, I think, was put in charge of his estate and then she took all the money, if I remember right, and your mother fought her and then lost a lot of money and went into debt fighting her. And since you talked about your mother, can you just talk about those experiences and how… Maybe it didn't play into it. But if it just played into your life, personally, you can talk about that. Fine. But if you see some way that it played into your journey in terms of making you resilient or just learned--

SEVETRI
You’ll find the answers there, 100%. [Laughter] Yeah, it's held a personal and professional place in my life. From a personal side, I felt that my father did what he was supposed to do as this male figure wanting to leave more for his family than what was left to him. He had built a successful company and he unexpectedly passed away from a stroke. And because he didn't have a lot of his ends tied up when he passed away, that was able to happen, right?

My aunt basically oversaw all of his assets and instead of doing what she was supposed to do -- divide it up between his kids which I’m sure most people who pass away, unless they have some rift with their family and children, are building this legacy, building something so that their kids can have something which I knew that was the case with my father.

I do feel, fundamentally, that I would be a different person though had I came into money, had I not had essentially lived a very, very modest first generation college student, going to college on full Pell Grant, scraping up money, mom not being able to afford this or afford that, working constantly to ensure that we had things that we did have that I don't think I would be like that entrepreneur I am today. I don't think I would be like--

ROB
You don't think you would have the same drive?

SEVETRI
No, I don’t. I don't think I would have. I think I would probably be just a lot more comfortable. And for me, my parents passing away at a young age, it made me, as with anyone, very uncomfortable. You know when they kind of tell you about immigrants who come over to the U.S. and then they have these huge successes? So they found Google or they found this company or that company.

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
I think it's a mindset that you just don't have anything, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
It’s like you don't have anything. You look back, you can't go back. You can't build out of your parents’ basement. These things that generally would be your safety net is no longer there. And I think that that just definitely propelled me to work as hard as I work and desire things that I want and like to leave a legacy as--

It may be a substitute for my parents not being there and not having the ability to give it to them so I have to give it to someone. I have to build something for… whether it's my team or whomever else. And so I definitely think that the loss of my father in that way and my mother--

ROB
How old were you when you lost your father?

SEVETRI
I was eight when I lost my father and I was 21 when my mother passed away.

ROB
Wow. That’s incredible. As you talked about earlier when we talked about mental health, I think it is harder for people that don’t have that and less people by the numbers just come out of those situations. But when you can come out of those situations, you come out stronger. You come out more determined. And certainly, that’s been the case for you. But take me back when you were younger -- let’s say, eight. We’re on that formative age -- 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, whatever. What did you want to be when you grew up and what do you want to be now?

SEVETRI
I wanted to be an attorney. Don’t ask me why. I just felt like maybe the only person I knew who had something more was like an attorney, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
But as I progressed in my teens, I actually did want to be more like an entrepreneur. And just from like a little bit I did know from my older siblings about my father, I kind of got the entrepreneur bug pretty early on. I kind of think it does run through your DNA so I thought that’s in my DNA.

ROB
I agree, which is why I think you still would have done it. I think you underestimate yourself. I think you would have done it and perhaps you would have been able to start earlier and maybe learn different lessons. But we can’t go back in life. It doesn’t exist.
SEVETRI
Yeah. Maybe I wanted to just take over my dad’s company. I don’t know.

ROB
Yeah, and then help him scale it. I think it’s part of you, right? If you’re in the right environment, it could be nurtured. And you had enough of it where it was nurtured despite the challenges, right? It was still nurtured where you can see the possibilities. Your dad died but you saw him do it. That does means something when you see your dad do it. And maybe when you saw your mother fight… I mean you don’t want to be in that position but it showed you to keep fighting through because your mother still made it through that even though it was a hard time, you know.

SEVETRI
Yeah. It kind of takes me to something that my pastor said once. He was like, “The way people deal with disappointments are going to essentially determine their future,” right? And he would say like, “Disappointments are constant. Disappointments are certain but disappointments can be conquered.” So I do feel like the way I've dealt with disappointments in life… And I definitely don’t cry over spilled milk -- although people are definitely bigger than spilled milk. But I do feel like, “Okay--“

ROB
I’m going to say that’s pretty [sassy - 12:38]. That’s a lot, yeah.

SEVETRI
Yeah. But I’m a big person. I cry. Get it out. Figure out how you’re going to deal with it, how you’re going to grieve, whatever it is. It doesn’t have to be a loss of a person. It could be a loss of something. Your business, right?

ROB
Sure.

SEVETRI
People are impacted significantly in many different ways. It doesn’t have to be necessarily like a death of someone. And my friends who have experienced like divorces, etc., that’s also like a loss. And you have to like grieve whatever it is that you’re losing. So I think about that in that sentiment. And all these things are like disappointments, let downs. But most importantly, it’s like, how do you grieve and how do you move forward?

ROB
Right. So a related point to that, can you think of a time, maybe in your business or professional life… You’ve had, obviously, personal loss and tragedy. But can you think about a time when you had a failure or setback and how you see that now as a set up for a future opportunity, not going right or not going as you expected actually helped to form who you are as an entrepreneur?

SEVETRI
Yeah. One of the most humbling things that I think anyone who has started one business and went to do a second business, that they had to raise capital for it, right?

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
And so for me--

ROB
Raising capital is a humbling process, too.

SEVETRI
Oh it’s so humbling.

ROB
Oh it’s so humbling. I’ll tell you about mine in a second. Go ahead.

SEVETRI
Oh yeah, I want to hear that. It’s like people are just like punching in the gut, right, over and over.

ROB
All the time.

SEVETRI
Particularly for us, black founders, it’s like they keep moving the finish line. So you get them what they need and they move the finish line further. It’s always something, right? So I think that that failures that I experienced in raising capital definitely made me an entrepreneur that I am and my tech company and why I have purposely kept an office and remained in New Orleans. Because once I raised capital, I could have been like, “I’m out,” right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
“I’m going to another place where there’s more tech founders,” more this, more that. But I really felt that it was important that I build something where I was so that we can have… not just me being the only black female that have raised xy and z capital in Louisiana. So now, I've raised more venture capital not only of any black female founder but of any female founder ever.

ROB
Go ahead. We’ve got to have the applause for that. That’s awesome.

SEVETRI
You know, it’s applaused but it’s also sad.

ROB
It is sad. Actually, it is sad. Yeah, it’s sad. But you are breaking the narrative because you’re helping to change that which I respect that you’re staying in the… That’s why I stayed in Ohio, too. I respect that you’re staying in the ecosystem and helping to build.

SEVETRI
Yeah. And I think it took a lot of just like gut checks along the way and a lot of failures along the way for me to still want to do that, right? I think there are a lot of times we can look at it and we’re like, “Okay, shoot, when I get that opportunity to leave, I’m leaving. I’m going to San Francisco. I’m going to LA. I’m going to New York” -- whatever.

We opened up an office in New York. But the reason why we opened up an office in New York was so that we could send resources back to New Orleans. So now my New York team can essentially--

My New Orleans team, also, they never experienced this because they don’t have the depth of tech. They don’t have the depth of the tech ecosystem there the way they do in New York. And so it’s all about like, “How do you bring resources to where you’re from to your communities, to your people?”

ROB
Amen. And something we’ll talk about offline is… You know, the goal of really Disruption Now, we’re starting a platform to do that and really connect just black and brown entrepreneurs -- just that -- and help not only raise money but help connect us because there’s enough… There’s a good amount of us but there’s not enough to where we can at least make sure that we are connecting, know about each other and grow and build because that’s how we’re going to take us to the next level. We can do that in person but we can also do that digitally as well.

But I want to tell you my quick story about raising money. It hasn’t been with as a founder yet but that’s my next venture. But I ran for office and I ran for treasurer at the state of Ohio. I actually got over two million votes. Lost the race. But it was a humbling experience running for… I assumed that all of the contacts I had will make it easy to race but it was not easy. I raised about $2.5 million but it was taxing. It’s a hard experience. 90% knows--

SEVETRI
That’s an accomplishment. Like 2 million people checked their box, that’s… I mean what you’ve done, that’s like historical.

ROB
For a treasurer race. People run for governor and stuff like that, so it was… Have you ever seen the Wolf of Wall Street?

SEVETRI
I have.

ROB
Okay. I haven’t seen it but there is this one line that just keeps coming back to me. He just says like, “Look, your girlfriend doesn’t like you? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing.. You can’t pay the bill? Good. Pick up the phone and start dialing. I want you to handle your problems by getting rich.”

What he was saying was right. It’s the sheer persistence. It is hard though, right? I mean I can’t tell you the amount of times I would go and go. I remember there was one contact I was trying to get some money. I must have called this contact 50 times. He never returned my call. I said, “You got to keep calling.” Oh my god. He never returned my call but one day, he gave $12,000.

SEVETRI
Oh wow.

ROB
Right. So it’s one of those things that you sometimes don’t see it over months and months but you just got to keep… You got to have a good product, too. But beyond that, you got to keep moving forward.

SEVETRI
That’s true though because it’s kind of like you got to just be persistent because you think that person’s not seeing it but they are.

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
Like, “Man, this person…

ROB
That’s what I’m saying.

SEVETRI
…he deserves this check.” You know, like, “He has worked for every dollar of this check.” And I think about that when I invest or donate. I think about that. Like, “Dang, this person deserves every dollar of his effort.”

ROB
And so now that I’m putting this forward, it’s made it easier. People know my work ethic. They also know like, okay, I have to either tell them where to invest because he’s going to keep… I’m not going to stop working. People know that. And it’s helped but it was… The process part of it though is only--

The proceeds are like this. The process is like 98% and that’s the part that people don’t understand. And it’s grueling. It was very lonely. It was very challenging. Sitting in front of a desk and just calling people for four hours in a row sounds like it’s easy but it is not. But it taught me because nothing’s been harder than that.

Let’s go back when you… I think Solid Ground Innovations was your first company. Is that correct, Sevetri?

SEVETRI
Mm-hmm.

ROB
Take me back to that point and tell me what you would tell your younger self now. What advice would you give your younger self? And then the second part of this question, “What advice would you ignore from others or maybe even from yourself?”

SEVETRI
Shoot, this may be like a double answer for both because--

ROB
That’s all right.

SEVETRI
A good friend of mine, he’s now on like Inc500 companies. He’s also in New Orleans -- one of the top events PR communications company here. We both had built our strategy communications agencies to like multi-million dollar companies and we sit around and we call ourselves like, “Oh this is my accountability partner” -- you know, same here.

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
And one thing that we said, that if we could do it again, we would have went in and worked for another agency first.

ROB
Mm, interesting. Tell me why.

SEVETRI
Yeah, to like learn what we didn’t know. So much we didn’t know because we were so… He ended up starting his agency because he was bringing all these sales for another company -- not an agency but another company. I believe like pharmaceuticals -- and he didn’t get a promotion. He got passed up for a promotion. And he was like, “What? I brought in more sales than anybody here. I’m leaving.” He quit and started his business within a matter of weeks.

For me, I was coming out of LSU. I had built a rapport in the community and so I started doing strategic communications for nonprofits first. Then I started getting to politics so I know the hustles, too.

ROB
Oh yeah. You know a lot, yeah.

SEVETRI
I ran communications for the first black female mayor of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. So I was doing that work. But we just talked about all the missteps that we made just because we didn’t know what we didn’t know, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
You know, how to properly price, how to properly build, etc.

ROB
That is an art. Look, I have an agency too that does content marketing. I advise politics. So we’re very similar there. I looked at your record. We have a lot of common here. [Laughter] It is. It’s tricky learning how to price right unless you know there’s like formulas and processes to do that. You’re right.

SEVETRI
And so many processes, even like starting a business and ensuring that you have your tax liabilities set up. Particularly, you start hiring people. Because one thing that we did was that the world… We live now more in this connected world where you can find these contractors and consultants that help you drive your business. Then we were hiring people like W2 employees as soon as we had the opportunity and building like that.
ROB
Oh yeah.

SEVETRI
So we just didn’t know what we didn’t know. Fortunately, our companies, we were able to get through it, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
We were able to still build our companies and do xy and z but we had a lot of trials and tribulations along the way.

ROB
Sounds like some advice you’d ignore is to not start a business right away.

SEVETRI
Right. At this day, well maybe I should ignore my advice and say, “No, girl. You just go out there and you just fake it till you make it.” But you got to make it though, right?

ROB
Yeah, you got to make it.

SEVETRI
Definitely.

ROB
Yeah. Look, my whole career has been in public service before this -- for the most part. It was really a career. I mean I was a lawyer and did other stuff but I was always aiming towards being in public office.

And I ran for statewide office in Ohio. That’s why I did prepare for that moment, really, for the last 20 years. It obviously didn’t turn out the way I thought it would but all that experience did prepare me to do this. So it’s not like I went right out and started a business. You know, I looked at it.

And then you’re kind of helping me feel better about it. I was like, “Well I should have started business early because this is something I can clearly do.” But maybe I wouldn’t be the person I was unless I went through that experience. So thank you for that. You’ve given me some motivation to that.

SEVETRI
Yes.
ROB
So originally, when you did the business, when you were looking at helping nonprofits, you came to a point where you realized that this can be a software as a service. “I can use technology to really take this product and scale it to the next level.” But you’re not a tech person, right?

So walk through the process because I think people go into business and say, “Well if I’m not a tech person, I can’t do that.” But I tell everybody, if they’re in business, you are two things no matter what you are. If you’re an accountant, you are a tech company and you’re a media company -- no matter what you are. If you’re a nonprofit, you’re still a tech and you’re a media because you have to know these things and do these things. But take us through the fact that--

Some people, when they think about tech, they go against the wall and figure, “I can’t do tech. I’m not a tech person. I just don’t know that.” Talk to those people from a person… You’re not a tech person, so on and so forth, but you have a tech company and you’ve raised now… I don’t know how much you’ve raised now. Is it 8, 9 $10 million -- however much you raised. You went from being “not a tech person” to running a tech company. Take people through that process and let them overcome that barrier in their mind, if that makes sense.

SEVETRI
Yeah. I think there’s two ways to look at it as well. So the first that I always tell people, if you’re out there and you’re looking for a marketing job or a sales job… Sometimes people will not look at tech companies because they have to be technical too to join a tech company but there are so many roles inside of tech companies where you can fit, right, that you don’t have to have technical backgrounds to work at a tech company. Secondly, starting a tech company, I think back to something that my friend, Sherrell Dorsey, said--

ROB
Oh Sherrell is coming on the show in a few weeks.

SEVETRI
Oh yeah?

ROB
This is a small world. This is a small ecosystem.

SEVETRI
It’s a small world. We’re all connected. -- Sherrell had wrote about our series A race and in the article, she called me like the “Antithesis” for a tech founder. So I’m black, I’m a woman, I’m from the south, I’m not technical and I’m a solo founder. So I’m like everything that they say you should not be who started a tech company.

ROB
Right.
SEVETRI
My first company, “Solid Ground Innovations,” we were a Communications and Management agency but we had an arm called “SGI Cares” that essentially sold to nonprofit organizations. We were essentially providing technical assistance our support to their back office in lieu of fulltime employees.

And then we were helping large enterprise customers like Grantmakers, your Kellogg foundations, your four foundations, your Aetna Better Health, your Community Coffees, Device, not only how they give their money but who they gave it to and then also helping them manage the success of those initiatives and programs -- so those awards.

And as we began to grow as a company, we realized that we could no longer help the smallest nonprofits as an agency because we just didn’t have enough time to do everything that we needed to do with organizations and definitely not based on their budgets, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
We would go under. We would go under so much faster than any company could imagine if you’re working with different sectors. And so we started to think about how we could essentially productize the service and deliver through a software solution.

So in November 2016, I was talking to my marketing director and he was like, “Hey…” I was telling him about the idea and he was like, “Hey, I went to Stanford. I got a buddy. He’s a software engineer. He could probably help you think through this idea that you have for a tech company.” We were even calling a tech company a product.

So I went out to the Bay. I sat down. I met with Ishmael who would stay on the board for a very long time, and is still an advisor to the company, and he created a 30-page specifications deck with wireframes for essentially what will become Exempt Me Now first and we then rebrand to Resilia. So I came back to Louisiana, sat on it for a while then began to look for an engineering team.

Now, one hiccup that I faced that many others can avoid is that because I wasn’t technical when I went out to hire an engineering team, it was hard to manage them, right?

ROB
Oh I can imagine that, yeah.

SEVETRI
They have one up on you because you can’t see if they are doing their sprints they’re supposed to or delivering and maybe giving you excuses for missing deadlines. And you’re like, “Well shoot, is this legitimate or not” because you’re not technical.
One thing that helped me greatly was going back to Ishmael and hiring him as a technical consultant to oversee my engineers. So because he was essential… He was on my side, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
He assured that these were accountable, that they stayed on track. He reported back to me. And he helped me a lot to bring up my lingo and understanding the tech side of tech. Right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
But for me, I was like, “Okay, I’m about to take this service. I’m about to productize it and deliver it through a software solution” because we were seeing every sector that we can imagine getting disrupted by technology. So either I’m going to be a disruptor and be disrupted by it. So let me pick which one I want to do. And I wanted to be a disruptor and the rest is history.

But for me, it definitely was just thinking around, “Okay, how can I utilize technology to solve the problems that I was seeing in our industry that were very antiquated?” What we were using was antiquated and dated. And how could I democratize the nonprofit philanthropy space in the process?

So what I feel for SaaS, I think that’s going to be very common. So for anyone that’s like, “Oh I’m not technical. How can I start a tech company,” you’re going to see more and more. And you are people who are industry experts in their space who don’t have a technical background but understand the problems that exist in their sector.

ROB
Yeah. Jewel Burks Solomon who I’m sure you know with Google Startups was on the show and she had a really great line about looking at, as an entrepreneur, solving a problem. She said, “Fall in love with the problem, not the solution.”

SEVETRI
Yes.

ROB
So looking at it from a technical background to further expound on what you said, it’s really… You don’t need to know C++ or whatever code you want to say or some code or html or whatever. You don’t need to know artificial intelligence. What the real issue is, “What problem are you trying to solve? What’s the journey for your ideal person, customer? What are the barriers that they’re having? What are the issues? Really falling in love with figuring out all the problems in the journey that that target ideal customer is. Once you know that, the right solution will come about. That’s not me. That’s from Jewel Burks Solomon.

SEVETRI
Yeah. If you’re good at building teams, if you’re good at putting together people… And that’s why I felt that I was really good at executing an idea.

ROB
Yes. But you were able to get this and have some money through actually already having a business. Talk about the process. Do you think it’s still more important before you raise money to have some money first? How would you go about advising overall the best approach to raising money because you’ve obviously been successful.

SEVETRI
So having money, do you mean putting your own money into your company first?

ROB
Yes.

SEVETRI
So my friend, Harold, and I… Harold, he’s the tech partner.

ROB
Your accountability partner?

SEVETRI
Well I think that we’re just like founders in the struggle, right?

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
Like, founders in the struggle. We were having this conservation on Clubhouse via a separate chat in which we were… He was saying, “No. Don’t use your own money. Don’t use your own money.” And I’m like, “Harold, so you invested in startups where founders don’t have any skin in the game? Like none?” He was like, “All right, when you say it like that.” But I think because founders that don’t look like us… White founders go out and they’re not exactly giving their money…

ROB
They don’t know how to do it.

SEVETRI
…into their companies, right? They go out and essentially raise money off ideas. I don’t think we have that luxury. And even with this new found wave of optimism around black founders…

ROB
We’ll see. I’m skeptical. Go ahead.

SEVETRI
…they’re still not going to be giving us money off no idea.

ROB
Yeah

SEVETRI
So you kind of don’t have a choice but to put money, something, into your startup to get off the ground, particularly if you’re not technical because who’s going to actually build it into software? And so I’m still a believer that, yeah, you should be like your first investment into your company. Now looking back, would I have invested as much as I’ve invested? Mm, maybe, maybe not.

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
And then to Harold’s point, he was dipping into his 401k. He was pulling money off here. He sold the house.

ROB
That’s a lot.

SEVETRI
He used the earnest of the house and put it into the tech company.

ROB
Yeah, that’s exactly what Rodney Williams did, too. I’m not sure if I’d do that either.

SEVETRI
Yeah. So this is what we were doing, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
Looking back, would I have done that again? Maybe because I’m here now and I’ve been able to like recoup it. But if I had failed, I would have been hurt -- oh so hurt.

ROB
I mean it's easy to say because it went well, so it’s hard to say.

SEVETRI
It’s easy to say because it went well.

ROB
It’s like, yeah, you took the shot and you made it. But if you're like LeBron James, you passed it, Danny Green missed it, you don't make it to the play. You don't win the finals. Then everybody would say that I wasn't the right shot. Who knows?

SEVETRI
Yeah. I think that there's something to say about being persistent and continuously on in the realm of means, right? And we have become more creative, right -- [Don - 33:40] going crowdfunding and I, going that route.

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
There are just way more options today than it was when it was us starting up. [Crosstalk - 33:48].

ROB
Oh yeah. Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah, you made it. It's amazing that you came to this point because there were a whole lot less options then. That's certainly the case.

SEVETRI
And then it was only like five years ago. It's kind of crazy.

ROB
Yeah, five years is a… Hell, a year ago, look at 2019 to 2020, it moved at an exponential rate. So when you see founders… because you're also an investor, right?

SEVETRI
I am. I would consider myself an angel operator.

ROB
Okay. So from what you've seen and from your experience from raising money, what do founders do wrong most often when they go about raising money?
SEVETRI
They think they know it all and they don't, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
And I say that because I was listening to a founder just talk about how they wanted to raise capital and how they didn't want for investors to draw them alone, how they were sending them these updates etc., but… I told that person, I was like, “Well include me on your updates. I'll give you some feedback.” And they sent me their update and I’m like, “No investor is going to take this update seriously” just because it wasn't in a traditional format. It was very vague. He was trying to have conversation updates and that's not how--

You know, you send out updates, it's like, “Here's what we're doing. Here are some bullet points. Here are some metrics. Here are some updates. Wish you could help.” You keep it simple, short. And it seems like that because he had no idea that his update could be like literally shooting him in the foot, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
And so I think it's a lot about thinking that we're actually like killing it but maybe not so much, right?

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
Maybe we need to send this around to a couple other founders who have some insights around… They don't even have to raise a lot of money. Maybe they won one pitch competition. Maybe they know how to put together a deck. You could Google some of these stuff as well. Or follow like First Round or Y Combinator. They have a lot of these resources on their website.

So I do feel that sometimes some of the biggest mistakes that we make are in just ensuring that we run like a tight ship when we're fundraising and then also having together your deal room. People die because of their deal room on the grapevine. We're trying to raise capital because the investors--

ROB
What do you mean by “Deal room”?

SEVETRI
So your deal room is basically where your due diligence is. When people ask about where your financials are -- Can you send over your financials? Can you send over your go-to market strategy? Can you send over your team bios? Can you send over this, this and that -- all of that information, all those files go inside of your deal room and that’s the due diligence that is going to be done on your company to see if it's viable for investment.

Sometimes, I’ll be looking at something and if I’m like, “Oh I’m interested. I heard that you do some investing. Here's my deck,” they're like, “Oh I got this deck.” And I was like, “Oh, well can you share xy and z with me” and then I won't hear from… ever again because they didn't think about, “Oh crap, people might ask for other stuff.”

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
So you definitely have to have a tight deal room. And I do feel that if you have a tight deal room, it's going to get you at least further in the investment process.

ROB
Got it.

SEVETRI
Sometimes investors, that's how they weed you out. They'll ask for stuff and they’ll be like, “Okay, let's see if they--”

ROB
That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense .That’s good advice. So what do you think is the most important in building a team or bringing on a co-founder? You don't have a co-founder but you do build a team. So what do you look for? What's most important? Alignment with the mission, character or some skill set that is missing?

SEVETRI
We always look heavy for culture fit.

ROB
Okay, “Culture fit.”

SEVETRI
First, can they get along with others on our team? Do they embody the mission of what we're building? Are they excited about what we're building? And then from there, we actually look at everything else.

ROB
So how do you evaluate the cultural fit? Walk me through that. It seems like a process that has a lot of intangibles. But maybe you have a process to how you figure out culture fit. How do you go about that?

SEVETRI
I mean it could be something as simple as like, “Oh we believe that black lives matter.”

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
You're probably not a culture fit if you don't believe that for us. But it's also like you believe that technology should be accessible for everyone irregardless of handicaps, irregardless of other key things that may be prohibiting someone to access, say, our website or something of that nature. You believe that we can essentially democratize our space in a way that brings more transparency and oversight and equitable practices for organizations led by brown and black people, by LGBTQ community. So whatever that may be, right?

So these are things that we're looking for in the makeup of people who are coming into our company just because if you are like pro-Trump running around with a flag outside, you're probably not going to fit with our team.

ROB
Probably not a fit. “You’re not a fit with us either so don't feel bad.”

SEVETRI
Yeah. I remember one of my team members, she was African-American and she had worked in other tech companies before and the week after George Floyd was murdered, I gave a talk on our all-hands about me growing up in the south and dealing with racism, etc., and she said that… She just like clutched. She was just like cringing because… She was like, “How are people going to take this? Is there going to be like backlash?” I’m like, “Girl, first of all, take what… say what…” It’s like, “If you have a problem with what I said, this is probably not a place for you.”

ROB
Turn down for what. There you go. I like it. There you go.

SEVETRI
Yeah. And I was like, “This is why more black founders need to be in position to build companies” because the fact that she was scared… She didn't know how people were going to receive it because you're so used to a white man getting in and saying whatever the PR person scripted him to say.

ROB
Which they would have told you is, “Well you shouldn't say this. It’s going to--“

SEVETRI
Yeah. Like, “We’re not dealing with that.” Like [indiscernible - 40:10], they said things like, “We're not talking about this in our company.” He’s there building that culture that, “Oh we don't talk about politics. We don't talk about social issues inside of our company.” That's a culture that they're now building around that. Although he also, two months after George Floyd, made a whole point--

ROB
See, I don't even think that's really like… This is what irritates me on that because I think when… I’ve talked to some of my white colleagues about this, that “You associate politics with my humanity.” This is an issue. “Black lives matter” is not political to me.

SEVETRI
No.

ROB
We're not talking about cutting taxes. That's not the discussion here, right? If we were, okay, I get that. I don't think somebody has a view that we should get more in taxes, less in taxes.

SEVETRI
Right.

ROB
Right? But if someone has a view on understanding equality, humanity and they don't understand that, we… If we're not having that discussion then by default, we're going to have an environment that's going to be less inclusive, and you're saying that's okay. See, that's the problem I get into this. When they tie everything that's dealing with our issues, when we're talking about just not being killed by police, that's not political.

SEVETRI
No. Like equal pay, how does equal pay political? Like me wanting to have equivalent pay to my counterpart who does the same job… What? How is this even political? How did we make Covid-19 political?

ROB
Like wearing a mask. Data is suddenly political.

SEVETRI
It’s crazy. It’s crazy.

ROB
It is crazy but it is where we are because… Disruption is about two things and the platform is about two things. We're about disrupting common narratives and constructs because the narratives reinforce the constructs. What you just said, when people talk about politics and they equate us talking about equity and equality, those are not political. That's about our existence.

And that's why I push back hard when people… I had one show called “Christians and White Privilege” with a pastor to get him to understand like, “Listen, I don't care what your politics is. If you're a republican, libertarian, none of you should be okay with a president that can't denounce white supremacy. I don't understand what you don't understand.” This is not a--

SEVETRI
Hey, even in Louisiana , they didn't vote for David Duke because they were like, “All right. All right. All right--“

ROB
That’s what I’m saying. He might get elected now.

SEVETRI
Shoot. Maybe. They voted for him at the state level but they were like, “Okay, we can't send this man to congress.” They're like, “We're going to vote for the crook because we're not going to vote for the racist.”

ROB
Yeah. I’ll take a crook over a racist any day.

SEVETRI
Me, too. I was like, “Hey--“

ROB
I’m just saying.

SEVETRI
But the thing is people understand, right? People, they understand that there are differences here.

ROB
Exactly. So let's talk a little bit about leadership development and self-awareness. One of my statements is that part of being self-aware is having people around you -- those accountability partners that wound you with the truth sometimes; the truth that you may not want to hear. Can you think of the last time that happened and what that truth might have been?

SEVETRI
The last time that that has happened? I would probably say… Shoot, my investor is always trying to send me like double rounds of truth so I’ll use that as an example and that was primarily around how we were hiring. They want us to hire from the top down. They were like, “Oh you should hire a VP instead of this operations role that was much higher,” so like a head. And I was like, “Okay. But we’ll find someone that they meet the bill,” etc. But that was like one of those hard facts where this particular investor, just like his mechanics around hiring, I was like, “Okay, I get it. I get it now.”

So that definitely was a hard truth around… just kind of sitting back and like running the full process and then taking in consideration of what he was thinking around who we should hire and what that person should look like and what it shouldn't look like. So I feel I always face hard truths with my investors related to business or what I’m looking at in general. -- I’m trying to think of a personal hard truth.

ROB
I’m trying to say somebody wound you with the truth. I’ll ask a different version of this question. What's an important truth you have that a lot of people disagree with you on?

SEVETRI
I actually believe that people should have the right to express how they feel.

ROB
Okay.

SEVETRI
I think about this and… I’m not sure if you're on Clubhouse.

ROB
I’m not yet. I haven't been there. I’ve heard about it.

SEVETRI
Oh I'll invite you on.

ROB
Oh thank you.

SEVETRI
You will like it particularly because of what you're doing here. So I’ll hustle some invites because, you know, it's still a hustle game.

So, one controversial conversation on Clubhouse, which is an audio social media platform, was that, essentially, they should ban people. So they should ban people from talking about specific things. That could be like Jews and blacks and then it escalates into things that become anti-semitic. And I agree with that. Yeah, if you going down that hole, you probably need to get shut down before you go down that hole.

ROB
Right.

SEVETRI
But I don't believe in muting people unless it's going to do some physical damage because I want to know who’s across the street from me.

ROB
That's exactly how I feel.

SEVETRI
Like, “Tell me more of how you really feel,” right?

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
I feel that we are in a time where it's like, “Oh that person was…” I think it becomes dangerous when it's like, “Oh that person was accused of xy and z. They can't get on this platform.” I’m like, “How are you not allowed to get on a public platform? Can they not use Google?” I mean it's not logical to me.

ROB
They got to be careful.

SEVETRI
And now Russell Simmons came onto the platform. Oh my god. It was like--

ROB
Oh yeah, I can see how that could cause controversy.

SEVETRI
Yes. And so I got it and I got it. I completely understood the whole sentiment behind it but I’m like, “Man, this is interesting” because it creates a… It's a conversation, right, of what is allowable and what's not. And it's such a hard thing to actually align to walk because it's like, “Yeah…” Definitely, that's triggering. That's triggering for a lot of people.

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
But then someone else might do something like, “Dang, they may have actually not knew that that was triggering.” But they learned today, right?

ROB
Yeah.

SEVETRI
And so you’re going to learn today. So it might be a very good learning opportunity for someone.

ROB
Sure

SEVETRI
But we're just such a call-out culture where people want to like ruin you. You can't learn those type of lessons in the public even if it wasn't intentional that you were trying to learn that lesson in the public eyes. So yeah, I think that that's probably something that most people don't necessarily learn.

ROB
I actually agree with you, too. I want to say Will Hayes said something similar like this.

It's actually natural to be irrational. How else can you explain, I don't know, all of human history, Trump is president? I don't know -- here and there. I had Robert Greene on the show. His latest book was “The Laws of Human Nature” and the second rule talks about irrationality. He said the first rule to be rational is to first understand that you are irrational.

So I think trying to just take people out because they have these beliefs, I mean I think it's also more important… There are some people now, they're just going out here trying to cause trouble, whatever. I think you've heard of those people. But if some people have these beliefs because of something that's triggering in their background, we have to understand this because it's not like we can just… We still got to live with these people. They’re still next door, right? They're still there. And so figuring that out--

I mean I know some people that are Trump supporters. And I say very plainly, “Trump is racist.” And a guy got offended with me for all these reasons. “Well, you know, I feel like you’re calling me a racist,” he said. This is what I said. I said, “Trump is racist.” And I said, “I got all these reasons and I have all these facts. You can choose to accept them or not but this is what it is. Not a deal breaker for you. It's not. But don't get offended if I tell you what I believe is a fact based upon what I’ve seen and what I’ve heard.”

SEVETRI
Absolutely.
ROB
Right? So I have these conversations. But I’m not afraid. And I think people on the progressive side, on the left, I will have a conversation with--

I’ll have a conversation with a racist for this reason. I want to embarrass him or her for their beliefs. And I’ll have that public exchange to show you why everything they believe is without any type of substance and it's something you shouldn't believe. And I can do that without canceling their voice. I’ll cancel their voice through my persuasion and argument. That's how I think we got to be.

SEVETRI
Yeah. I agree with that. Particularly if you're on Clubhouse, it's like, if there was a Trump room, oh man, they would try to get it shut down.

ROB
But there should be a Trump room. If there is one, I want to hear it.

SEVETRI
“But Trump is still president of the United States.” Like, “What do you mean?” Oh this is white supremacist room. “Yeah, probably but he's still the president of the United States.” And they’re [inaudible - 49:52].

ROB
And millions of people voted for him. And even when prayerfully he's going to lose, 40 to 45% of the country is voting for him. That's a fact.

SEVETRI
Right. And you can't mute those people.

ROB
No, you can’t.

SEVETRI
That's probably something I believe that, yeah, you should meet those people.

ROB
Sevetri, I think this is because of where you're from. You're in Louisiana. I’m in Cincinnati. If I muted every person like that, I probably couldn't do business. Just a lot of people like that. You have to learn how to deal and communicate, and I say, shut down their points in a way without muting them. Just mute them through beating them in the argument. That's what we got to do.

SEVETRI
Exactly. I was like, “That's why Trump won is because of that mentality around…” Just like, “Oh they don't exist.” You know, muting them. I’m like, “Okay, that's how Trump won the first time.”

ROB
Yeah. We're not going to pretend here. We're not going to live in a bubble.

SEVETRI
I can tell you, in the south, we were like, “Mm-hmm.”

ROB
“Mm-hmm.” Yeah, I’m in Cincinnati which, by the way, is as far as you can go in the north and still be in the south. I wasn't one of those people that was like surprised that… If you don't pay attention and you stay in your own bubble, we can also do the same thing. We can just keep reinforcing things that we believe to be true, like these people are the outliers. They're not. We got to figure out how to engage them.

As we get ready to wrap up, a couple more questions. You have a committee of three, living or dead, who advise you on business or life. Who are these three people and why?

SEVETRI
My mother, Mellody Hobson and--

ROB
Oh she'd be a good one.

SEVETRI
…maybe Bill Gates because he's the king of philanthropy.

ROB
Okay. Final question. You have a billboard or Google ad that summarizes or states your beliefs. What is that statement and why?

SEVETRI
Get out of your own way.

ROB
“Get out of your own way.”

SEVETRI
Yeah. Hopefully, self-explanatory.

ROB
Yeah, that is. That is. I do have one final question. You said that when you started the business, you felt like you can make change and be in charge of doing it all at the same time. You still feel that way?

SEVETRI
I do. I do. I’m still hopeful. [Laughter]

ROB
Sevetri Wilson, it’s a pleasure having you on. Thanks so much.

SEVETRI
Thank you.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]