“The world is changing. It was already changing. We were already going more digital. There were already going to be some elimination of jobs and this is the unfortunate thing -- but it is true. And this just allowed things to accelerate toward the trend that was happening. So pay attention to the trend. Look at where things are going.” -- Rob Richardson

-------------------

ROB RICHARDSON
Shawn Wooden, how are you doing, man?

SHAWN WOODEN
I’m good. I’m good considering the times we’re in.

ROB
I hear you. Welcome to Disruption Now where we disrupt common narratives and constructs. I got to tell you, your profile, your background and everything you’ve done certainly does that. You been in the NFL which a lot of us have been in NFL but what a lot of us haven’t done is take that career -- become a financial advisor. I think you’re an engineer, too.

SHAWN
Well yeah, computer science. That’s my degree.

ROB
I’m actually an electrical engineer. So we have that in common, too. All right. And now you’re a financial advisor. So you’re like a Renaissance man. You’ve done it all. You’ve done athletics. You’ve done academics. Now you’re doing financial planning and entrepreneurship. First of all, I want to say thank you for coming on the show.

SHAWN
Oh thanks for having me. Good to be here.

ROB
Yeah. Well this is a crazy moment that we’re in -- the COVID-19, coronavirus moment. I hope something we never repeat again. It’s certainly something none of us have encountered in our lifetime. We’ve been through downturns, obviously, but this is different. -- This is different. -- It looks like there’s going to be a downturn. It’s been a downturn. About 30 million people are without jobs right now as we speak today.

The way it happened, the breadth of what happened, the speed at how it happened is something that I’ve never witnessed and my guess is you haven’t either. So as a financial advisor now -- and you’ve been through one downturn. But again, as I said, not like this -- what advice are you giving people in general? We’re not asking for general stocks. We’re asking for… You know, how are you talking to people at this moment as we go through this and people are looking at their 401ks or they’re just concerned about the future?

SHAWN
Really, I’m bringing the football analogies. Make sure you have your game plan. This is the game plan to see. What is it we want to do? It depends on each individual. Each individual is different. Each situation is different. If it’s the long game that we got to play, we play the long game. If we have to be a little more tactical, let’s revisit the risk tolerance. Revisit some of the goals that they want to do short term, medium and long term and develop a plan for that.

But at the end of the day, it’s very difficult. Like you said, this is something that’s unprecedented. We haven’t seen this in our lifetime. It seems like we’ve been able -- me and you are probably in the same generation -- we’re able to say that in a lot of different things whether it’s knowing the financial world, the health world -- you know, the pandemic -- or even in the political world. So it’s one of those things that--

You know, I tell people we have to be fluid. We can’t just stick our heads in the sand and just--

ROB
Yeah, we’re not going to wish it away.

SHAWN
No, it’s not going to go away. We have to confront it. You have to be very on-top of it. That’s what we try to do. That’s what we try to do with our clients as we try to be proactive versus reactive. Sometimes, we do have to take some reactions. But at the end of the day, we try to make sure that our clients are settled for their situation and their goal.

ROB
Yeah. So what are you hearing as the greatest concern, in general, from clients or people in the industry in this moment?

SHAWN
Just look at the last two months. March was extremely bad. You know, it was just--

ROB
It was a long part to the history of the world. I feel like we’re still in March. It’s like this March has never ended. Like, “When is March going to end?”

SHAWN
Yeah. It’s real bad. But then April, if you look at it, by a couple more minutes, closes the bell, you know, this will be one of the best months in the market. So it’s just the extreme volatility, the speed of it, the way that the pandemic and everything that just happened. 30 million people are unemployed right now...

ROB
Yeah.

SHAWN
…in the United States and that’s a large number.

ROB
That’s a very large number.

SHAWN
It’s an extremely large number. So [crosstalk] [Inaudible - 04:56] that.

ROB
So how do you explain it? Do you think there’s a disconnect, that there’s a possible lag in the market, the fact that so many people… I’m just curious, just to get your thoughts, that the market could be doing well in this moment? By the way, I just personally don’t trust this moment in terms of the people thinking it’s doing well right now.

Do you think that there’s some disconnect that likely the market will respond when the full effects of this happens and people really get a grip that 30 million people plus are without jobs?

SHAWN
I do think there’s another shoe to fall. There’s definitely, like you say, almost a disconnect. There’s a lot of optimism which is… Hey, I mean we’re an optimistic country. That’s what we’re built on. We’re built on our values and our optimism and hoping that tomorrow will be better than it is today and getting on the steps to make it better.

I think the government has done what they could and they’re still willing to do… the Federal Reserve as well -- you know, what they’re willing to do and what they’re willing to show to be able to boost up the economy and make sure that the country is still be able to operate.

Like we were saying this, we are at a historically low for unemployment. Now we’re at a historic high, literally, within 30 to 60 days.

ROB
Yeah.

SHAWN
When you look at that and you take a step back, you know that something else is going on. I mean none of us are… I mean I’m not in the medical field. You talk about I was in this field… Well I definitely wasn’t in the medical field...

ROB
Neither was I.

SHAWN
…so we don’t really have a true understanding of the issues with this.

ROB
And neither do they, it seems, at this point from what I can tell.

SHAWN
I mean it changes every day.

ROB
Right.

SHAWN
That’s why I say you have to be fluid and you really have to revisit your goals and make sure that your portfolio is set up the right way for you. But no, I definitely think that there’s going to be some other news. I hope it’s good. You know, we always hope for a miracle. But I do think that the market has not really… The recovery has been very fast, considering [crosstalk] [inaudible - 07:22] unemployment.

ROB
Yeah, I agree.

SHAWN
I don’t think we’ve really seen an economic turmoil that’s going to come from shutting down the country for two months.

ROB
Yeah, and it’s really the after-effects. Like what is… Even people, as we start to open back up and… You know, I’m going to follow the science and the data, not even my own feelings.

I’m a social person, Shawn. I’m sure you’re a social person. I’d love to be back out there right now, traveling. I would love to be able to do this interview, instead of virtually, in-person. I’ve got a lot of these and we don’t have that opportunity right now.

But in this moment right now, you’re looking at where we’re at, I do think there is uncertainty about not only where we’re going but then how people feel. If people don’t feel safe, they don’t feel like they want to interact with people because they still fear the unknown, which is--

SHAWN
Mm-hmm, and it’s all right.

ROB
Right. We don’t know what we don’t know. It’s the “unknown unknown,” as Donald Rumsfeld said, not that I want to quote him too much. The point is we don’t know that. When people are uncertain, I just don’t see people come out and say, “Yeah, let me just go out. Let’s go drink and party with my friends like we used to.” I don’t know if we go back to that just like that or if we go back to that scale ever again. I mean, possibly.

Look, I tell people, “As you’re looking at your business, as you’re looking at your portfolio…” I am not a financial expert. I’m just a person that looks at human trends. I was already doing Zoom. I was already doing virtual conferences. By the way, say this, I want to have you--

SHAWN
[Inaudible - 09:02] You’re like me.

ROB
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am a nerd. I embrace it, by the way. I embrace being a nerd--

SHAWN
I tell people all the time, “Embrace that term, please.”

ROB
I embrace being a nerd. I do. And you actually made me go to a point that I was going to later but I want to go to now. I’ll just finish this point really quick.

The world is changing. It was already changing. We were already going more digital. There were already going to be some elimination of jobs and this is the unfortunate thing -- but it is true. And this just allows things to accelerate toward the trend that was happening. So pay attention to the trend. Look at where things are going.

Just don’t, say, put your head down and say you want to go back to a world where you read your newspaper every day. No. You’re going to read it online. Sorry. That’s over. You can hope for that world but that world is… You can hope all you want, it’s not coming back. So figure out where people are going and they get prepared for that moment.

Speaking of being a nerd, you know, being black and being a nerd is sometimes not considered to be two things you want to be, right?

SHAWN
It’s not cool.

ROB
It’s not cool, right? Again, we’re about disrupting common narratives and that’s a common narrative I want to take in, throw in the Ohio River, the ocean, wherever.

SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
Talk about your experiences with that because you’ve been on both sides of it. You’ve been the jock which is… People are comfortable with us being a jock. Like that’s not--

SHAWN
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it’s just [crosstalk] [inaudible - 10:24].

ROB
I’m not taking away from what you’ve done. It’s exceptional. The fact is you’ve got as far as you did in that field. But the fact is that is something that people think in their head. They see a big black man, they say, “Oh…” -- for me because I’m 6’5”, too -- “…did you play basketball?” I tell them, “Well I injured my leg earlier. I stopped playing. But I went to engineering school” and they’re like, “Oh what a waste.” I’m like, “What?” [Laughter] That’s our people, too. I’m not just talking about white people. That’s our people, too.

SHAWN
Yeah, that’s everybody. That’s everybody. I mean that seems to be [crosstalk] [inaudible - 10:51]--

ROB
Yeah. Talk about how you navigate that and how we can change the narrative and the expectations that we can embrace academics just like we embrace athletes.

SHAWN
I think it’s going to take some time. I think it’s going to take some time for us… you know. And for people like me, to be able to get the word out there -- to disrupt that narrative or disrupt that stereotype. That’s what it is. It’s a stereotype. I fought it when I was a kid. You know, I was a nerd--

ROB
Can you give some examples? Did you ever have to talk to folks like--

SHAWN
I was a nerd. I tell people all the time I was a nerd before I was an athlete.

ROB
Yeah, I like that.

SHAWN
I was a nerd before I was an athlete and that’s what it was. I was always in the computers. I was always into doing whatever -- comic books. Now comic books, you know, Marvel and everything…

ROB
Oh that’s it. You’re in now, yeah.

SHAWN
…it’s a cool thing right now but growing up back in the ‘80s--

ROB
Who was your comic that you like, by the way? You got a favorite?

SHAWN
Oh man, I was a Spider-man guy.

ROB
Okay.

SHAWN
I really like Spider-man. I mean I remember having several--

ROB
We got a black Spider-man now, too.

SHAWN
Oh yeah. Hey, that’s… Trust me, Spider [black - 11:54], oh yeah. Like I said, I’m a nerd. I watch anime still. I watch cartoons with my kids and everything. That’s just what it is. I mean, it’s really going to take just us getting out there saying it’s okay. You know, telling the kids, “It’s okay to be…” You know, “It’s okay to enjoy reading. It’s okay to not think like everybody else, not just fall into line and say, “Hey, I’m going to pick up a ball,” no matter if it’s a basketball, the football, whatever type of ball. You know, hey, yes, it’s an opportunity. It does create opportunities. That’s the one thing is. Athletics does create opportunities especially for inner-city or kids that aren’t from a well-upbringing or anything like that. There might be that…. Those are opportunities in the classroom; opportunities [crosstalk] [inaudible - 12:42]--

ROB
We got to tell them it’s a pathway to an up… It is not the end of… It’s not the destination.

SHAWN
It’s a chapter in your book. It’s not your book.

ROB
Correct.

SHAWN
I always tell guys all the time, as you know, especially guys that are playing, they make it to the NFL where they’re in college at a major school, “You got to be able to turn that chapter in the book and write…” Hopefully, you have plenty of chapters [crosstalk] [inaudible - 13:05].

ROB
First of all, there’s a lot of layers I want to get to here. Before you go and advice people about the chapters and seeing the whole book, let’s talk about your early chapter. Do you have any specific moments where you had to kind of overcome this or things that kind of right now come to your head when you think about the tension between your academics and actually being in sports?

I mean I have one but I… Again, I didn’t make it as far as you. I remember when I was playing football, there were some advice. There was this coach telling a lot of the athletes like, “Don’t take geometry. Why would you challenge yourself that much? You need to be focused on football.” I’m like, “What in the world?” This is in high school.

SHAWN
Oh yeah. Trust me, I’ve had those conversations. I mean being an engineer… especially at Notre Dame, when I went there, there was really only one other person on the team that was an engineering major.

And I was told by a couple coaches… I won’t call their names out or anything but [crosstalk] [inaudible - 14:00]…

ROB
Yeah, you don’t have to.

SHAWN
…or anything like that but [crosstalk] [inaudible - 14:03]
ROB
That wouldn’t against the grain. That’s what coaches do.

SHAWN
There was time I had a chemistry lab, my freshman year, and I was told, specifically, “Shawn, do you realize why you are going to this school?” And I was like, “Yes, to get an educat…” and they were like, “Football is paying for you to be here. You are here to play football and then you will go to school. So don’t miss practice again because of a computer lab or a chemistry lab or anything like that… academics. Make sure that you schedule around football.”

I mean that’s just something that, at the end of the day, let’s look at it. Football did give me the opportunity to be a nerd and be there so I understood what they were saying. They did not say they gave me all the help I needed in order to be able to get a degree and do well in the classroom, however, I had [crosstalk] [inaudible - 14:47]--

ROB
But can you imagine somebody that doesn’t have the same… I imagine your parents had something to do with reinforcing things.

SHAWN
Oh my mom, yes.

ROB
Yes.

SHAWN
My family was very strong in academics… pushing academics. And it came to [indiscernible - 15:01]. I mean my sophomore year, I was told I was never going to be able to play football again.

ROB
Oh wow. What happened there?

SHAWN
I was born with a slight case of Spina bifida in my lower back…

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
…so I had to get some surgery, some instrumentation, some bone grafting and everything to put in the lower back just to make sure it was stabilized and things like that. And I was told I would never play again. They gave me about 10% chance to have--

ROB
Wow. You were told you’d never play football again and you’ve played nine years in the NFL. Am I right about that?

SHAWN
Yes.

ROB
It’s important for people not to accept--

SHAWN
I was very fortunate.

ROB
Yeah. Listen… -- Go ahead.

SHAWN
I tell people all the time is… I’m a numbers guy. I’m a data guy just like you. But I guess when I was younger, I was too dumb and naïve to believe the numbers because when somebody told me I couldn’t do something, that kind of pushed me -- didn’t know what I didn’t know -- pushed me, gave me the inspiration to do something to prove them wrong.

ROB
Yeah. You and I have a very similar story. Mine is not based on being an athlete. Unfortunately, I wasn’t as good as you in athletics. I have a learning disability, ADHD, so I struggled in school early on. But I decided at the end of eight grade, I said, “I want to go to college.” I told my teachers that and a couple of teachers sat me aside and talked to my parents. They said, “Your kid is out of his mind. He’s not going to be able to do... He struggle in school. How do you think he’s going to make it in school?”

You’re right. There is something to… not paying attention to what people say is possible for you. I think there’s a lot of power in that. There’s also a lot of power in also making sure you’re pragmatic, too. So I want to talk about that, too, in terms of… When you advise people in their careers about the chapters -- let’s go back to what you said -- particularly those who are in sports, believe that they’re going to do this forever, believe--

SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
I don’t know why but people do believe that just because--

SHAWN
They do believe it.

ROB
For the same reason you just said -- people just believe that they’re going to be the ones that are different…

SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
…which that belief probably carried them to this point whether they’re in the NFL or they’ve reached the pinnacle of their sport and they’re thinking, “Okay, I’m going to be like this for a long period and my money is never going to run out like this, the women are going to keep coming,” whatever you want to say, and we all know that that is the exception rather than the rule. How do you talk to them about making this a chapter in your life and understanding that this is not the whole book in sports?

SHAWN
It’s a fragile subject. Like you said they all believe that--

ROB
I’m sure it is. You remember how you were at 21? 18?

SHAWN
Oh yeah. I was a 21-22-year-old kid, was making a little bit of money in Miami.

ROB
“Can’t tell me nothing” like Kanye said.

SHAWN
“You can’t tell me. Man, you’re getting on my face.” But no, you just have to make them realize. And I think that the more they hear from people that they care about, people that they understand, care about them… You know, you just show them that you care about them and you’re not putting them down.

I tell my kids all the time, “Don’t let anybody put barriers on you on how high you can go.” It’s just one of the things that… And even myself because as a parent, I’m going to try to protect my kinds. And sometimes, I might tell them not to try something or not do something just for belief because I don’t want them to experience failure.

ROB
Right.

SHAWN
Or I do want them to experience failure but I want them to be sort of gradatory -- you know, make it a little bit lighter for them.

But you just have to be real careful with those guys. Sometimes, I go over with the rookies for the Dolphins when they come in. I know Dolphins. Last year, they brought in 20-something rookies. Now everybody is not going to make the team. I tell them, “Look to your left. Look to your right. There’s three of you guys. Only one of you are going to be here past one year,” you know.

ROB
Yeah.

SHAWN
That’s just the stats. “Hey, do what you can. Do everything you can in your power to make sure you’re that one person. However--”

I don’t want them to have a Plan B because I want them fully focused on the goal or what they want to do, what they want to accomplish. But be well-rounded. Don’t make football who you are as a person.

Now coaches aren’t going to want to hear this, general managers aren’t going to want to hear this but football can’t be who you are. You play football but it’s not who you are as a person. You might play basketball, you might play hockey, play baseball, you might be a professional baseball… Tom Brady has been playing for 20 years…

ROB
Yeah.

SHAWN
…playing professional football at the highest level. Hey, some people say he’s the goat. Unfortunately, I can’t say that until maybe he retires and then I’ll have that conversation. Joe Montana is my guy, He’s a Notre Dame guy. I played one of the greatest with Dan Marino so--

ROB
I think it’s hard to compare errors, by the way.

SHAWN
It’s impossible.

ROB
I don’t want to go too far down. Another Jordan “Last Dance” just came out but I’m just like… It’s really hard to compare errors.

SHAWN
Well at the end of the day, you know, look what Jordan’s done off the field. Look Tom Grady’s off… I mean Tom Grady is going to have a life way longer than the 20 years he had playing football.

ROB
Absolutely. That’s a great point.

SHAWN
So that’s what we have to look at. [Crosstalk] [Inaudible - 20:19], you have to have some type… like you said, the long game. You hope you play as long as you can, however, just know that when this chapter does close, make sure you’re able to close and it’s not going to devastate you and destroy you.

ROB
Yeah. Amen.

SHAWN
That’s the problem. There’s a lot of guys that have issues after they’re done because they’ve fallen into a deep depression because football--

ROB
Their identity was football.

SHAWN
Their identity was football. I mean I’ve actually had this… And I go around, sometimes done off-season for visiting troops overseas. The military has the same issue.

ROB
Makes sense.

SHAWN
When guys get out of the military, especially guys who had been there for a long time –we have those 20-year-plus guys that made it their career -- they have an issue of identifying who they are outside of the military.

ROB
This is getting kind of Pollyannish but I remember reading about Michael Jordan and I think I saw one quote, he said he would give all his money back just to be able to play again and to be able to have…
SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
Right? …to be in front of stuff. I understand that to an extent but a part of it is like, “Well, dude, how are you not happy where you’re at right now? And the fact you’ve made all this and had all this, it’s…” It’s back to what you said. Your identity can’t be wrapped into simply what you do… Even for a career, no matter what, it can’t be wrapped up in that completely. It has to be something else.

I think another point about what you made is you never want to tell people to have a Plan B but you better have a plan. It’s like, “Here’s the plan: You’re not going to be playing football for 25 years.” It’s not possible.

SHAWN
Exactly. Impossible.

ROB
And you’re going to need to still make money for the next 50 years of your life. It’s very likely you’re going to live for a long time. And it’s 100% guaranteed, you’re not going to spend your entire career playing NFL football. It’s not happening.

SHAWN
It’s not happening.

ROB
Right. So getting people to understand that having a plan and having a strategy… because pride and hope are not a strategy. They are not. You could have hope in your abilities, hope that you’ll be very successful but don’t spend like you’re going to keep making the same amount of money that you have this year every single year in the future. Getting people to understand that it’s not about having a Plan B, it’s about having a plan.

SHAWN
Yes, a life plan.

ROB
A life plan, right? We don’t think about that as much when we’re 21-22. I didn’t but I also didn’t have a multi-million dollar contract. I’m sure my parents would have been a lot more firm on me about that because people will find ways to take your money quickly when you have it, as you know.

SHAWN
Yeah. Yes, they will.
ROB
How do you tell people to avoid… How do you go about, I guess, getting people into habits or to good habits or breaking bad habits so they don’t find themselves in this trap especially when you’re dealing with people that might have first-generation real wealth?

SHAWN
Exactly. You know, when you deal with athletes, you definitely have to break that bad habits first. A lot of them come in to the league or their perspective sport or their perspective career with some very bad habits -- you know, not knowing how to budget, not to know how to deal with certain things. And like you say, there’s… I tell a guy, usually who is an athlete, they always… Everybody has that chain moment, that car moment, that “buy the mom house” moment, whatever it is…

ROB
Of course.

SHAWN
…you know, where you’re going to spend a significant amount of money which you’ll probably regret literally…

ROB
Right.

SHAWN
…maybe three or four minutes after you buy it. Not trying to just put them on a budget where they’re saying, “Hey, you can only do this, this and this” and that’s it but, “Let’s have a conversation of, “If you decide to do this, if you do decide…”” You know, “Instead of buying this very affordable nice Mercedes Benz” or whatever it is kind of car, Tesla now, whatever kind of car it is -- “instead, you want to buy a Maybach or a Rolls-Royce, things that…”

“Let’s look at those dollar figures. Let’s look at how that’s going to change your future. Let’s look at how that’s going to impact where you want it for your life plan, for your goals of generational wealth,” whatever your goals are. Usually, it’s generational wealth. They want to be able to leave generations of wealth because like you said, they’re the first generation so they want to be known… to be able to say they helped their family and kids, grandkids and [indiscernible - 24:51] out and just make sure that they had opportunities.

ROB
Right.

SHAWN
You know, in this country, fortunately, wealth does create more opportunities. It is what it is.

ROB
Wealth creates more opportunities everywhere. You know, one of my mentors said, like, yes, “You don’t do everything for money but you can’t do the Lord’s work without it.” So you can talk all you want to but you can’t have the type of impact you want unless you have some means. It’s true.

SHAWN
You have to have means.

ROB
Yeah. Even mass movements that helped lots of people, the people that led them usually had something going for them -- I mean, every single one. You look at Dr. Martin Luther King. Dr. Martin Luther King was not poor. He came from a family of means. Mahatma Gandhi was not poor. He had a lot of success. There’s nothing wrong with being poor. It’s not an indictment on your character -- I want to make that clear. What I am saying is if people talk about money not being anything or not mattering, those people are crazy because it does. [Laughter]

SHAWN
Money can’t be everything that you’re about. Like you said, it can’t be what your value… can’t be, you know… Hey, that’s what it is all about. That’s just what it is. However, like we both know, it creates opportunities.

ROB
Absolutely.

SHAWN
It puts you in positions, get a better education. I was fortunate to have a football scholarship that afforded me to be able to get a top-rated… I say “top-rated” because I still love Notre Dame.

ROB
Yeah.

SHAWN
[Laughter] You know, a top-rated education, a way to better my life no matter if I play football or not afterwards. I was setting myself up for that -- you know, life after football.

ROB
Well let’s actually talk a little bit about life during football. You were very involved in the concussion lawsuit. I think you were a class representative.

SHAWN
Yes.

ROB
You actually had a moment where you personally went through something like this while you were in the NFL. Talk about that moment because I read that and I think it’s important for the listeners and viewers to hear about your actual experience in having that injury during football and then how that has informed you to be a class representative for the concussion lawsuit.

SHAWN
It was kind of interesting because I’ve never really wanted to be out there. We’ve really never wanted to be the person that was going to be the voice of thousands of guys… you know, thousands of my brothers that played the game with me; that played the game before me and after me.

Injury is part of the game. We understand it’s a very physical game and things like that but we want to make sure that… I literally just wanted to make sure the guys were going to be able to take care of their baby like an insurance policy type of thing where guys who had played the game that maybe suffered some issues… Like you said, I’ve had a couple of concussions while I played. I’ve been knocked out.

ROB
Do you remember that? I actually have looked this up. You said it was like a Jerry Maguire moment…

SHAWN
Yes.

ROB
…when it happened. Like what were your feelings at that moment?

SHAWN
That was my rookie--

ROB
By the way, Jerry Maguire, for all my people who may be a little bit younger, you need to Google that with “Show me the money.” Yeah, you got to see that.

SHAWN
Yes. That’s why I say we all have [crosstalk] [inaudible - 28:17] pull it up. Pull it up and you’ll be able to [crosstalk] [inaudible - 28:20]--

ROB
For all you young bucks.

SHAWN
Yeah. I had my Jerry Maguire moment. Actually, it was my first preseason game. We were playing--

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
I remember specifically, I was named as starter--

ROB
Your first preseason game ever in the NFL.

SHAWN
First preseason game ever in the NFL…

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
…named as starter that week.

ROB
So you were feeling high at this moment.

SHAWN
I felt I made it. I was thinking, “I made it.” That was the first round. I didn’t understand what “preseason” was about. Personally, I thought, “Hey, if I made as a starter like that, I made the team. I’m going to play for my 10-plus years.”

ROB
Right. Right.

SHAWN
I already had it all scheduled out. I mean I had that moment where… No, it was a play… 13th play in the game. We were about to go out. The starters were about to go out in the game. I probably was going to stay in a little longer because I was a rookie. You know, it was one of those times where.... I hit the receiver, hit the other corner, the defensive back and just blacked out -- totally out.

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
Didn’t wake up until somebody was above me clapping hands and saying can I feel my body. They scared me so much because they know… They already started taping me to a board and everything. I was paralyzed, basically. Couldn’t move. They kept asking me again. Literally, they strapped on this… put me on the side of the helicopter and helicoptered me down Jackson Hospital. After some evaluations and everything, I was marked “Fine…” marked “Okay,” was backed out at practice the next day.

ROB
The next day.

SHAWN
The next day…

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
...with one of those collars on.

ROB
Wow.

SHAWN
One of those cowboys collars, those big neck rolls.

ROB
That’s nuts.

SHAWN
It was crazy.

ROB
But that was the time, right? And I know that you said this -- not understanding the difference because we didn’t appreciate it as much between “pain” and “injuries.”

SHAWN
Yes.

ROB
Yeah, you talked about that.
SHAWN
And unfortunately, that’s why I really joined the “concussion” cases because I wanted to change the talk around “concussions.” You know, whenever there was a “ding,” you got hit, the bell rung, [crosstalk] [inaudible - 30:27]--

ROB
Yeah, “Get up, boy. Be tough.”

SHAWN
Yeah, you can keep going.

ROB
“It’s all right. Everybody, shake it off.”

SHAWN
It was just pain. It wasn’t considered an injury. I think we’ve changed that discussion around it where now coaches, players, the health staff, whatever, the trainers and things, the doctors, they’re all considering “concussions…” Concussions are now classified as an “injury.”

ROB
Yeah. Because particularly from our guys… Makes me feel like I’m old. But during our time… I don’t know if I want to say that, damn, because I really do feel old when I say it.

SHAWN
Yes.

ROB
Anyway, when I was in high school… Damn, that still sounds old. All right, I can’t come up with a better term. Anyway, [laughter] we push.

I actually had a really bad knee injury. As I told, I had an injury earlier. It was a really serious injury. And the reason for it is because I was… I was in pain but it was probably an injury and I was like, “You got to keep pushing. You got to keep pushing” because that’s like in the ment… So how do you now talk to players and how would you talk to your family members about the tension between pushing yourself and making sure you don’t injure yourself and knowing when a line is not crossed. I think that’s tough for people.

SHAWN
That’s very difficult. That’s very tough. It’s very tough. It requires a lot of knowledge, a lot of understanding your body, one; understanding what you’re going through whether it’s a knee injury, whether it’s a shoulder injury, whether it’s a concussion. You know, educate yourself on it. I tell parents all the time, “Try to educate yourselves.” No, I’m not saying become a doctor and believe everything you read on the internet especially WebMD and things like that. Don’t think that you’re a PhD. Always consult.

ROB
We got a lot of people that think they’re doctors right now with this COVID-19. -- Okay, go ahead.

SHAWN
[Crosstalk] [Inaudible - 32:11]--

ROB
We got a lot of professional doctors…

SHAWN
Yeah. [Crosstalk] [Inaudible - 32:14]--

ROB
…who really majored in BS, not M.D. Go ahead.

SHAWN
I’m not going to say anything but you know, [crosstalk] [inaudible - 32:19]--

ROB
That’s just my opin… Hey, this is Rob Richardson speaking. Go ahead.

SHAWN
It’s to educate themselves and make sure that they give the support to the kids. It’s like you said, it’s… We’ve all had coaches. I’ve had a coach, man… I was down on the ground, had the coach move practice, move the drill down five-10 yards, told the trainer, “Go take care of them” and just kept practicing. Unfortunately--

ROB
Treat you like you’re just to be used out the field which is why…

SHAWN
Which is [crosstalk] [inaudible - 32:51]--

ROB
…back to your earlier point about academics and why it’s important to not… It’s not about having a Plan B but having a plan because a lot of these people see you as stuff that they can use for money for the school…

SHAWN
Oh yeah.
ROB
…as a temporary asset and then you’re gone. So understand the opportunity you have and understand that no matter what, even if you go on to become a great NFL player, it’s not going to last forever. So you got to use this. If you don’t use this, they will take what you have.

SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
You don’t even know how to keep it.

SHAWN
They can take everything else away from you. They can’t take your mind away from you. They can’t take your ability to be able to think your way through something or come up with a game plan or come up with something. They cannot take that away from you.

I can always say that you’re not good enough, you’re not fast enough, you’re not strong enough. Make sure that they never say is, “You’re not smart enough.”

ROB
Amen to that.

SHAWN
That’s what you can control. You can control that. We can only worry about what we can control and that’s one of the things that you can control. Some of us are more gifted in the classroom than others. But if you can put that hard work on the field, in the gym, you should put that same amount of hard work in the classroom…

ROB
Amen to that.

SHAWN
…if not more.

ROB
Yep.

SHAWN
If not more so.

ROB
You know, I saw this quote that I heard others talk about with this concussion lawsuit when the NFL fans were saying, “What’s the big deal? It’s just millionaires versus billionaires.”

SHAWN
Billionaires, yeah.

ROB
My line to that is, “Whatever.” But the fact is there’s just one side getting their necks broken and getting their brains affected. Only one of those people are.

SHAWN
Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, we did come up with a settlement that I think is… You know, hey, it’s a settlement. So is it perfect? No. But I think it’s--

ROB
But I just said people have to appreciate. You’re not like things to be thrown away. And at the end of the day…

SHAWN
Well yeah. That’s [crosstalk] [inaudible - 34:40]--

ROB
…if you don’t have your brain--

SHAWN
Yeah. Unfortunately--

ROB
Is it worth to that person who have a million dollars, two, three, to not have a brain?

SHAWN
Yeah. When you play a sport or you’re an entertainer or an athlete or you’re in the public eye, you really have to… you know, you have to be kind of thick skinned because you’re going to get a lot of criticism. You know, you get those people. They always think that they can criticize no matter what. [Kids in the background] Sorry about that, man.

ROB
You got your people? That’s your kid.

SHAWN
Hey, it’s home school.

ROB
Yeah. Speaking about your kids, I had actually a question about kids.

SHAWN
Classroom is done.

ROB
Yeah. Thinking about like… knowing the injuries of football, would you want your kids playing football still?

SHAWN
I actually have a son that plays football right now.

ROB
Oh you do? You don’t worry. That’s actually interesting because my fiancé has a kid that can easily… I mean he will go to the NFL if he played.

SHAWN
Oh wow.

ROB
He’s like nine and approaching my strikes. Just a big, strong, sturdy kid. His grandfather played for USC. He was actually one of those legends out there.

SHAWN
Okay. All right.

ROB
But she’s like, “No. No, can’t do it” -- scared to death. So the fact is you have a kid there. So that doesn’t… I’m sure it concerns you. How do you navigate through this?

SHAWN
Oh yeah. Like I was talking about before, it’s being aware. You know, making sure that he understands that there is a difference between being hurt and being injured. There’s a big difference. You have to push through pain -- unfortunately, that’s what sports is -- but you have to know when you’re injured and don’t let anybody else tell you that you can push through it. You have to respect your body. Unfortunately, you only get one of them. We only get one body. You’re going in there [crosstalk] [inaudible - 36:18].

ROB
So there’s no tension with the mother at all about this? She was all on board?

SHAWN
Huh? What was that?

ROB
About your wife or your mother?
SHAWN
Oh yeah.

ROB
The mother, there was no tension there?

SHAWN
It’s funny that you say my mom because growing up, I can just remember, when I started playing football… It was later -- around 8th-9th grade. Whenever my mom would come to a game, I would worry about getting an injury or anything because my… I was always worried my mom was going to be that runs on the field.

So no matter if I was injured or not, I was getting up. I was pushing through injuries. I was pushing through injuries because I didn’t want to be embarrassed by my mom jumping on the field, talking about “My baby.” [Laughter] [Inaudible - 37:02]. I didn’t want that.

But no, it’s one of those things that I… We’ve had conversations around our kids playing any type of sports. I have two daughters that do gymnastics and cheerleading. There’s a lot of injuries in that as well. But my kids know that we support them no matter what. We just try to be there for them -- you know, support their sports and endeavors outside of the classroom but making sure that they do what they had to do in the classroom.

ROB
Oh absolutely.

SHAWN
I think we already said that’s number one. But it’s an ongoing conversation.

ROB
I’m sure it is.

SHAWN
It’s an ongoing conversation because I have another one that’s in 9th grade right now that is starting to pick up sports -- pick up football. It’s hard.

ROB
Yeah. I’m sure it is.

SHAWN
It’s hard. You know, I don’t blame anybody that tells their kids that, “No way. We’re going to go a different route. We’ll make sure those opportunities open up some other way for you.”

ROB
Sure.

SHAWN
Not everybody’s path is through the gridiron or on the basketball court or hitting the ball. Sometimes, you might do something else. Nobody knows what’s written in their book except one person knows and that’s God. He has a plan for you.

ROB
Yep, agreed. A couple of rapid-fire questions. What’s an important truth, something that you have as a core conviction that most people think is just crazy or disagree with you strongly?

SHAWN
Well I don’t know. I don’t think anybody disagrees with me. [Laughter] I can be pretty compelling after I talk to them after a little while. No, I mean--

ROB
What I want to know [is] a deep personal belief, not your… I can tell you’re great at persuading people. But what is something that you believe that others might disagree with?

SHAWN
I believe in aliens.

ROB
Okay.

SHAWN
That’s a nerdy [indiscernible - 39:10]. That’s Star Trek, Star Wars, all the stuff and everything. I truly believe in aliens but I don’t believe that they abduct people or anything like that. I’ve never been abducted. But I do believe in aliens. And I do believe, sometime in the future, maybe [crosstalk] [inaudible - 39:25].

ROB
All right. Well nobody has answered the question that way. All right. So that’s one.

SHAWN
Hey, I told you, I’m a little different.

ROB
Yeah. No, that’s good. Different is good. You have a committee of three, living or dead that can advise you on business and/or life. Who are those three people and why?

SHAWN
Well you said one earlier -- Martin Luther King, Jr.

ROB
Okay.

SHAWN
Just want to know… because of his convictions and the struggles. Even though, like you say, he came from means, he still attacked a system.

ROB
He did.

SHAWN
And he went hand-in-hand with other people. I mean he was the head of a movement but he was not the movement himself.

ROB
Correct.

SHAWN
He understood that. Just to be able to talk to him about that and… I’m the type of person -- I mean I think most of us are -- we like to be liked by the majority of people. Yeah, we’re going to piss some people off because, like you said, we might disrupt. We might say our beliefs that they might not believe in.

ROB
He was extremely unpopular. I tell people he was definitely an innovator and a disruptor. I say you can always tell innovators and disruptors because they are liked after the fact. He wasn’t liked during the fact. He was one of most hated people in America. He’s well-liked now because what he stood for was right but at that time… This also goes for, actually, a lot of black people, too. They weren’t in line with that.

SHAWN
[Crosstalk] [Inaudible - 40:57]--

ROB
If you want to be an innovator, it’s hard to go against the grain. -- Go ahead.

SHAWN
Yeah. I mean he had people that he was fighting for that didn’t--

ROB
Correct.
SHAWN
You know, “Why are you putting this out there? Why are you doing that? Why are you bringing this? Why are you making it worse for us?”

ROB
Or saying, “You’re making it all about you” or “Why are you doing that?” I mean a lot of people thought that. Like I said, people have a revised whitewash view of heroes and innovators after the fact. But during the fact, like I said, they weren’t liked. All right, who else? Who’s your number two?

SHAWN
I have a strong faith, belief, faith-based and all that stuff so I would say Jesus Christ.

ROB
Okay. Well what would you ask Jesus if Jesus is here? He’s talking to you. What are you going to ask?

SHAWN
He’s talking to me. First, I want to say, “Thank you for taking away all my sins, drying on the cross for me.” But just to be around, just how He handled life, how He dealt with being a human being and then knowing that He was going to ascend. It’s one of those things that I just want to know. I just want to know. I mean we read the Bible. We read things about it and everything but to be able to hear it from Him would be… You know, hey, it would be real nice. Like you said, just spend five minutes with Him, whatever it is.

ROB
Yep.

SHAWN
The third person probably would have to be--

ROB
It can be somebody right now.

SHAWN
It could somebody now? That’s what I’m thinking of. There’s plenty of people on the business world that… you know, the finance world that’s inspiring and all that stuff and everything but to me, I would love to spend some time with… Wow, that’s hard, man. Three people?

ROB
It could be somebody you spent time with, too.

SHAWN
You know what? I would love to spend some time with Michael Jordan.

ROB
Okay. What would you ask MJ? This is going to be one of my questions. Actually, this is good. So what would you ask MJ? What would you want to talk to MJ about?

SHAWN
I’m going to talk to MJ about how he approached the game.

ROB
Mm, okay.

SHAWN
How he approached getting people around him better knowing that he was one of the best ones to do it at that time that he was doing it and probably ever to do it.

ROB
That’s my question. I said, “Is he the goat?” That’s my next to you. He’s on your advisory committee. You got to make him the goat.

SHAWN
He’s my goat. He’s my goat.

ROB
Okay, yeah.

SHAWN
He’s my goat. But like you say, I think he transcended generations where… Actually, my kids, they have no idea who he is, really. They just know he has a product line and wears his shoes and things.

ROB
Yeah, they know the Jordans.

SHAWN
They don’t fully appreciate him because they weren’t around at the time that he was playing.

ROB
Sure.

SHAWN
But just how he dealt with that 12th guy on the bench on the team. What was his relationship with that guy? What was his relationship with the coaches and the trainers? Did he have a relationship with the guy that brought the towels in the locker room -- how he treat him. Because usually, you see--

You know, I’ve been around some great players and all that and know great people off the court or off the field as well. But Jordan is one of the ones that intrigues me because he’s doing the time that I grew up. I remember getting my first pair of Jordans and chased off a SEPTA bus in Philly because some kids wanted to steal it.

ROB
Oh yeah. Yeah, Jordans were the thing. I mean it still are in some places. But yeah, definitely.

SHAWN
Yeah. Asking my grandmother so many times, “Buy me a pair…” because I knew my mom wasn’t going to buy me a pair. So my grandmother bought me that pair of Jordans. It was just mystifying. I got to meet him a couple of times. I doubt anything that he remembers. I got to meet him a couple of times, just being in the field that I’m in… or I was in around professional athlete, all that stuff. You know, I never really got to spend any time just asking him I’ve been into… you know, what he’s made of.

ROB
Yeah, that makes sense. Any books or resources that really are your go-to that you would recommend?

SHAWN
My go-to is… I do read the Bible. That’s my go-to for faith to make sure I have the foundation and things like that for me.

ROB
What about any other books that you recommend, authors?

SHAWN
There’s tons of books. I’m more of a self-help type of guy.

ROB
Okay.

SHAWN
Probably the books--

ROB
Who do you like in the self-help there?

SHAWN
Everybody. I’m not lying. I don’t think I’ve ever not read a book or… I’m not really a big of a book reader, first of all. I’m more of an audiobook.

ROB
Hey, I’m counting on… You do Audible?

SHAWN
I do Audible.

ROB
Okay. What do you like on Audible? What’s your book on Audible?

SHAWN
My kids do Audible all the time and everything. I mean you put me on… Let me think about that. The last one I read is the Seven Habits… of course, the Habits of Successful People.

ROB
Yea, that’s a good one.

SHAWN
That’s a great one, actually. But the last one I read… Let me think. Tunde gave me a book. Don’t tell him I didn’t read all of it.

ROB
I won’t.

SHAWN
He gave me a book almost like a year ago. I forgot the name of it.

ROB
Well if you remember, you come back to… We’ll come back to that later at some other podcast with you.

SHAWN
Yeah.

ROB
So final question, you have a billboard or a Google display ad that says your theme in life or something that really describes your essence. What does that say and why?

SHAWN
“Worry about what you can control and don’t try to control things that you can can’t.”
ROB
Yeah. Hey, that will help you a lot in life.

SHAWN
[Crosstalk] [Inaudible - 46:46]--

ROB
You can’t control this coronavirus but you can control how you react.

SHAWN
I can’t control the coronavirus. I can control my reaction to it. I can control how I can keep my family safe and things like that. I can control my thoughts on… But at the end of the day, I can’t control the vaccine. I’m not in the laboratory coming up with the vaccine or antibody or anything like that. So yeah, I can only worry about them.

ROB
Shawn Wooden, I appreciate you coming on the show, man.

SHAWN
All right. I appreciate you having me, Rob.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]