00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,280
their familial
background, their economic status,

00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:07,560
education, background and things
of that nature zip code born into.

00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440
So that's why
I think equity is a better way

00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,960
to look at making the world
a better place, because then it takes into

00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,640
context the backgrounds
in which people come from.

00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:20,640
If you believe
we can change the narrative,

00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,840
if you believe
we can change our communities,

00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,840
if you believe we can change the outcomes,
then we can change the world.

00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,480
I'm Rob Richardson.

00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,480
Welcome to Disruption Now.

00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,720
Welcome to this Russia Now.

00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,760
I'm your host and moderator,
Rob Richardson.

00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:36,720
With me is Joshua Gundu.

00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,680
He is the CEO of Stealth Startup.

00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,280
He's also had a lot of experience
with product management

00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,200
and I believe is also an angel investor.

00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,000
So many different hats.

00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,480
He's he's Warren,
I believe you also worked with Tik-Tok.

00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,600
So I think there's a lot of things
I'd say to our guest.

00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,880
Yeah, to explore there was from
the Midwest moved his way out

00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520
and is now finding himself as a
as a as a Cali boy in L.A.

00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,400
so which has been part of his

00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,240
that that's helped build his network
and we're going to talk about that

00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:05,680
and everything he's done there

00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,960
and hopefully gain some type of advice
about what to do, what what

00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,240
not to do and how we can learn as founders
and investors in the space.

00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:15,560
How are you doing today, man?

00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:17,840
I'm good. I'm good.
Thank you for having me on the show.

00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,240
Always love to chat with folks

00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,560
all across, you know, especially from
the Midwest as me being from Michigan.

00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,520
Always good to connect with other folks
who have Midwest roots in the

00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,840
in the ecosystem.

00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:29,440
Absolutely.

00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,200
Well, if you can everybody on this show,
please subscribe or subscribe

00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,640
to us on YouTube that like button
and then also hit the subscribe button.

00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,440
You can also
of course, on us on disruption. Now,

00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,520
we love
to have conversations that are disruptive,

00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,120
that disrupt
common narratives and constructs.

00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,080
So I want you to feel comfortable
to be as controversial.

00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,280
You usually are on on Twitter.

00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,560
So I know you're not going
to have any problem with us, man.

00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,440
No, exactly.

00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,320
All right. So let's get right to it.

00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,080
So you you had this statement on LinkedIn,
and I want to

00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,400
I want to talk about this statement and
what it means to you and why you said it.

00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,680
You said, I am for equity
because equity starts with everyone.

00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,360
Why is that statement important for you
to put out and what does that mean to you?

00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,840
Yeah,
I think it's the reason I say equity.

00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,120
The reason I use the word equity
as often as I do, because people think

00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,080
that like, it's like everything equal,
like equality, like 5050.

00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:23,760
You get the sense, you get the chance.

00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,560
The thing about equity is that everybody
doesn't start from the same place.

00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:30,200
So to make things

00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120
more,

00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,480
even across the board,
you have to think about the advantages

00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,440
and disadvantages that people come from,
whether it's like

00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120
their familial background,
their economic status,

00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,400
education, background and things
of that nature zip code born into.

00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,280
So that's why
I think equity is a better way

00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,800
to look at making the world
a better place, because then it takes into

00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,800
context the backgrounds
in which people come from.

00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:01,280
Yes, but something that I believe
one thing that sparked our conversation

00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,880
and kind of got us talking on there
on Twitter,

00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,640
you made a reference
and I'm not going to get it exactly right,

00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:12,680
but you made a reference
that people often like to

00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,120
romanticize, that they pull themselves up
by their bootstraps.

00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,720
They came from this
struggling, hard background,

00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,800
and people seem to be romanticized
with that.

00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:23,920
Like, I've seen that.

00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:27,920
But talk about why you see that
as an issue.

00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:29,040
I know I do.

00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,040
And how should we think about approaching
that in terms of a

00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,600
a moment of self-awareness
with the ecosystem?

00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,360
Yeah, The reason the first reason that I

75
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,600
see it as an issue,
because it usually comes from those

00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,720
who did not have to grow up
in economic insecurity.

00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,680
It comes from those who came from either
middle or upper middle, mainly

00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,240
upper middle, especially in the tech
ecosystem backgrounds.

00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,680
And they were like,
you know, you know, great hustle,

00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,800
you know, coming from nothing,
things of that nature.

00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,560
And I think they romanticize it because
they think, I missed out on something.

00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,360
I could have had more more of that hustle,
more that grit.

00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,200
Like, you know, like they like
they're jealous of poverty or something,

00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,200
which is like always going to be jealous
of change.

00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,360
Exactly.

00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,800
Jealous about nothing like it was.

00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,240
It's always weird for me
when those who didn't experience it

00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,080
romanticize it, because those
who experience it do not romanticize it.

00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:26,920
They talk about the very real things
that are when you grow up

00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,320
in economic insecurity
or unstable environments,

00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,680
that does a lot of damage
and it does more damage than it does good.

00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,120
And I know that folks in our ecosystem
like to romanticize hustling

00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,440
and all that kind of stuff, hustling
to get a like a an a

00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,240
your AP world
class is fundamentally different

00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,800
than having to hustle
to put food on the table.

00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,160
Right.

00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,880
And I think they look at equate
those two hustles,

00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,560
but you can't equate the two houses
because their one is

00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,120
an achievement in an accelerated course

00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,760
and one is literally
just doing what you need to do to survive,

00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:06,320
which also can take away the energy
you might have going to be able

00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,160
to put into getting a good grade
in that class.

00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,320
Yeah, I really think people

00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:14,640
have struggled with this

00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,640
because they struggle with

00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,200
things being given to them and they feel
like they'll be looked down upon.

00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:22,480
This is my perspective

00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,360
of the privilege they have,
and this is not a singular privilege

00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,520
I'm talking about because I believe
privilege lives on a spectrum, right?

00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,160
There are multiple ways to have privilege
100%.

00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:32,880
Right.

00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,880
And that's what this conversation gets. So

00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,600
divisive when I don't think it has to be
if people look at it.

00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,320
But I understand why it does become that,
because the self identity of a person,

00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,720
people like to believe
that they've done everything

00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,840
without any help
because they romanticize with that.

00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:52,680
And that,
I think, is utter bullshit, right?

00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,120
Because we don't
we don't do anything by ourselves

00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,080
and often is the system. Yes.

00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,200
You have to work
like I'm not divorcing work from it.

00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,120
But that to me is like common sense lack.

00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,920
Of course you have to work like
and I think people overemphasized

00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,360
how hard they worked to romanticize
about where they came from

00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,880
because they don't like
seeing themselves as privileged.

00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,640
But I heard this and

00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,840
Arlan Arlyn,
I forgot Hamilton's name out of Hamilton.

00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:20,360
Yes. Thank you.

00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,880
So I don't know why I forgot that, but
she was on my show discussing privilege

00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,920
and she's she really stated it
the best I've heard it stated.

00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,040
She said privilege is just something
you have is not a bad thing, right?

00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440
It's only bad if you lack self-awareness

00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,440
or you abuse it,
which is the problem, right?

00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,160
Because people in this space are like,
I got here, I went to Stanford.

00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,320
Why can't you all do that?

00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,600
And I found a way to make it.

00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,600
And they really under undervalue

00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,880
the ecosystem that they grew up
in, the network that they had around them.

00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,480
So I believe it goes to that.
I agree with that.

00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,120
I think that's a really good way
to look at privilege.

00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,520
And I know people
like for some reason don't

00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,520
like to know that they were

00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,880
given certain legs up that those did
not have because like like you said,

00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,680
people like to assume that it diminishes
the work that they put in.

00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,440
But I always believe that

00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,720
opportunities and the way that people
like what successes

00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,360
it's based off like the privileges
you were born into, the systems

00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,720
that you were born into, as well
as the personal choices that you made.

00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,480
And depending on who you are
and what you're doing,

00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,640
all three of those can be weighted
differently.

00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,360
Like, you know, on, you know, with Guy
RAZ, you always ask people,

00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,960
is it luck or was it hard work that helped
you get to where you're you're at?

00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:47,600
And I'm always most
into folks that realize that

00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,280
luck and

00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280
privilege do have a material impact.

00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,720
So who gets to even work in this ecosystem
in the first place?

00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,520
Absolutely.

00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,800
And privilege more than anything else.

00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,280
Yes, you can, because you can persist
long enough if you have support.

00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,240
I can think of so many examples.

00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,240
But let's take Amazon, right?

00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,520
Jeff Bezos didn't come from a nothing
background that neither did Bill Gates.

00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,200
Neither did Steve Jobs. No.

00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,400
All those folks
and lots of lots of support,

00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,800
they got early access to the knowledge
and and you speak to this often

00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,480
because we have a lot of people
that are trying to downplay

00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,320
college like, well, look,
all these founders didn't

00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,360
go to college like you're not Steve
Jobs, you're not Bill Gates.

00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,440
If you have maybe if you were

00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,320
if you if if right now your parents
gave you access to advance A.I.

00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,320
knowledge ten years ago,
you probably do not need to go to college.

00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,160
Right. Exactly.

00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,560
Unless you're that person.

00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:45,880
You do need to go to that. Right.

00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,640
So I do think there
there is some perspective there.

00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,720
What are your thoughts on that?

00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,360
Yeah, I think the thing about downplaying
college to me

00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:58,000
is specifically in the tech
ecosystem is the anti institution

00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,680
mantra that people tend to have Now
a lot of tech folks back

00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,480
then, you know, when folks are coming out,
they're like,

00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:08,600
we're the outsiders, We're like anti
this and say that.

00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,600
But when you look at the backgrounds
of VC backed founders, operators

00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,960
at hypergrowth companies, operators
at larger, larger venture firms

00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,040
as well as big tech, you know,
they all have college backgrounds

00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,720
and if they didn't go to one of the most
elite college, like the elite colleges,

00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,360
the thing that people don't notice
is that a lot of them

00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,960
went to very expensive
private schools for high school.

00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,200
So like, hey, yeah, I did.

00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:33,240
I skipped college.

00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,480
But you also went to a high school
that cost $30,000 a year.

00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:37,080
Yeah.

00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,360
So it's that is the nuances
and the pattern matching that

00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,280
I've personally seen, which is why
I'm like, yes, higher education is,

00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,080
is if higher education didn't matter,
then you wouldn't see venture firms

00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,080
as well as founders and intros
even being made say,

00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:00,320
they studied here, they did this,
giving them some type of credibility

00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,160
during an introduction
or during a conversation.

00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,440
So as much as people like see,
especially in tech,

00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,280
like to downplay,
like why go to college, why why would I

00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:14,440
you know, go to go to college to
to get a degree?

00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,680
And then in the in the ecosystem,
if you really pay attention,

00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:22,240
that whole dropout narrative is actually
not as apparent as people want it to be.

00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,720
Even in engineering specifically,
people talk about it from the lens

00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:30,280
of founding a company or working
an engineer, and people did not know this.

00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,960
There's a lot more functions that go into
running companies than being an engineer

00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,080
or founding a company
or like being a founder.

00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,880
And now we see bad because VC backed
founders usually have pedigree

00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,680
on the education and academic education
and professional or one of the two.

00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720
So that's kind of my thing
with the college thing in tech

00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,560
is just that they're anti establishment
and they're using

00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,920
they're using the anti-establishment
political belief.

00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:01,480
They have to push down and push away
the importance of institutions,

00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,520
although these are the same people
who are sending those kids,

00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,200
their kids, to these institutions.

00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,080
Yeah, I actually think it's a more
it's it's more cynical for some

00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,000
because I also think they're pushing

00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,000
a narrative to people
to make them feel as if,

00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,480
you know, they can be like them
if they embrace these

00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,240
this kind of mentality and it
and it kind of it pushes to me

00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:23,560
part of a political agenda.

00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:25,200
What people want are rhetoric.

00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,240
And for people to believe
that, you know, I too can do this,

00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,880
I can be just like that person.

00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,480
And not being realistic about what
how that person actually obtained that.

00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,360
I'm a I'm a very I'm a I'm
a great believer in, you know, anything's

00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:40,240
possible. Yes.

00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,440
And overcoming barriers,
I have that belief fundamentally.

00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,360
And while at the same time
I have to believe that

00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,360
a lot of people that are pushing

00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,840
the narratives of what they did,
they're not being honest.

00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:52,000
No, they're not.

00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,000
They're not telling you
their familial background.

00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,200
They're not telling you
their household income.

00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,080
They're not giving you
the context of who they knew.

00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,360
Like, you know,
we talk about the common sense wins.

00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,440
You know, Paul Graham from
see knew them when they were teenagers.

00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,440
Exactly. Yeah.

00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,120
You know, and they both went to it's
great schools and things of that nature.

00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,000
I think they both jumped out of Harvard
and MIT.

00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000
But people focus on that versus like,

00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,320
how did Paul Graham know
some teenagers in Scotland?

00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,400
How did how
what networks were these kids in?

00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:26,080
So it's like it's a I wish people were
more transparent about their backgrounds.

00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,120
But I think, like you said earlier,

00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,440
the more transparent people
are about their privileges,

00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,880
the more they feel like that will take
away from the way people view their work.

00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,240
Yep, I agree.

00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,360
But look, I'm a person that like I didn't
grow up rich, but I had no poverty zero.

00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,040
So we were middle class moving up
middle class later

00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,480
and I ran for office for a brief stint.

00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,800
And I remember some people tried to, to,
to, to kind of use that against me.

00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,600
And the thing is, I'm like, I don't know.

00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,240
I thought as black people, it's better.

00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,680
Our goal was to not just focus on poverty,
but to get out.

00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:00,880
Yeah, it's not.

00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,240
And that's not it's
not to look down upon people

00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,560
that didn't have to go through poverty
because my parents both get opportunity.

00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,480
I'm not saying
they were better than anybody else,

00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,560
but they got opportunity, worked hard
and were able to position,

00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,680
you know, people after them, me

00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,440
and their kids to be better off
like we have to get out of that,

00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,560
Like we have to get out of that mentality
and I think it is prevalent.

00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:24,160
Do you see that
and how do you challenge it if you do?

00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,320
Yeah, I think for me,
I think that goes into like you know,

00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,320
the the age old like

00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,680
how black are you and people attributing
too much of blackness

00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,040
to vulnerability,
economic insecurity, instability

00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,160
and having to get it
by any means necessary, you know,

00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:43,360
it would be greater.

00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,000
It would be great
if people started like leaving that

00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,200
and not assuming that you are less
or more part of the community

00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,560
based on how much economic insecurity
or instability

00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,720
did you experience growing up
or in your early adulthood?

00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,600
Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,720
But let's let's let's go down this road
and challenge this a little bit.

00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,680
Right? So

00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,600
we talked
about privilege being on a spectrum.

00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,040
And if I had to say,
if you are a VC funded,

00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,040
you tend to be it's
not just that you had a great idea.

00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,280
It's not that it's not just it's
it's really just it's really that actually

00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,720
it's usually that you had a good network
and you were in a system

00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,520
that gave you the opportunity to get this,

00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,520
I believe, heart, you know, heart stop.

00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,320
What advice do you give people that maybe,
you know, when you add the privilege

00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,520
to a spectrum, you know, obviously,
if if people even if you're black, you

00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,840
go to one of those rich high schools
and you go and you go to Stanford,

00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,160
you probably going to be connected
in that system.

00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,280
But let's say you're in the Midwest.

00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,600
Let's say you went to a good school.

00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,440
You know, you went to Michigan State,
I went to Universal, Cincinnati.

00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,000
And you're starting
you're starting a business.

00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,880
What advice do you give people
if they don't have that will say, the VC

00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,080
infrastructure kind of going for them?

00:14:54,080 --> 00:15:00,200
How should they go about this, this
this journey that is entrepreneurship?

00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,920
Is the goal to

00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:07,960
eventually raise or does that
is that not the what's the what's the the

00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,040
that's actually a fair question.

00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,560
So you want to build a scalable business
that is eventually venture back.

00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,120
What like what advice would you give folks
not just to start a business,

00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,240
Nothing wrong. That's a good thing

00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,000
to like start a business,
figure out a way to make profit.

00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,760
But building a scalable business

00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,640
where you where you're using a technology,
an idea that you believe can scale,

00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,240
how would you how would you advise a
a founder coming up?

00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:32,800
Yeah.

00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,840
So for me,
I think the way that I typically

00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,960
give advice on
this one is you can de-risk two things.

00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,960
You can either de-risk yourself
or de-risk the business

00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,880
when it comes down to just generally
raising capital in general.

00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,880
If you don't

00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,000
come from that background,
I really recommend trying

00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,760
to divest yourself as much as possible
because the metrics will always move.

00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,600
That's
What do you mean by de-risk yourself?

00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,360
The way about de-risking yourself
is one thing that I've seen

00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,680
a lot of people do
is showcase their knowledge

00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,800
in the most natural way
that it is to them.

00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,600
So if you're someone who can write long
form,

00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,320
write long form, if you're someone
that can write short form, get on Twitter.

00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,160
If you're more audio in focus, create
a podcast, things of that nature.

00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,720
So people showcasing
your genius will de-risk you because,

00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,720
hey, maybe you didn't go to that school
or maybe you didn't go to that.

00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:26,360
I love that.

00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,720
That's a bar showcasing
your genius will de-risk you.

00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,720
Yeah, that's good. Go ahead.

00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,720
So that's kind of the thing that I
that I've seen work for.

00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,000
A bunch of folks who are outside of
the ecosystem is like, Hey,

00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,960
you might not have the company markers
or the education markers

00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,240
that are typically VC backed,
but if you put your ideas out enough

00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,040
to the world
in a in, the key thing here is in a format

00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,840
that you can consistently do, you can't
just do it like one or two times.

00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,800
You have to really put the reps in.

00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,920
So then eventually people are listening,
reading or watching

00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,160
and then like, okay, like this, this guy
or girl knows

00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,080
exactly what they're talking about,

00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,120
and then they start even really caring
about like where this person

00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:12,000
went to school or what company
they work, that they know that,

00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,480
this person
could have gone this or done this,

00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,640
but they're in choose they may have,
you know, circumstances, where have you.

00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,480
But that's the way that I've seen people

00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,120
deal with themselves
quite a bit, is via the consent lens.

00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,640
If you don't want to do
that, then I would recommend

00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,640
on the work side, which
is another practical one, is to just look

00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:36,720
to work at a company that you believe
will get acquired or go public.

00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,440
That's a more nuanced one
because you want to then look at the job

00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,360
opportunity as an investment opportunity,
like, okay, if you want to.

00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,440
Like I worked at a company called Burner

00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,920
some years ago, second phone number
for any use case

00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,880
In my thinking, walking in there
when I was leading product there was that

00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,040
I was like, okay, this company
could potentially get bought by a telco

00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,680
or want to be like domain sites
like Squarespace or go daddy to power

00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,200
another lever lever of communication
when someone's creating a business, right?

00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,320
So that was the way
that I was looking at that.

00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,200
And I think if people started
looking at the world of startups,

00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:16,600
not from the lens of like,

00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,200
okay, what are they going to pay me
and what's my equity, but more

00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,800
so do you really see this company
working out in the future?

00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,000
If you do, then great.

00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,560
If you don't and it's just
getting your foot in the door also great.

00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,800
But the way you really are going
to be de-risk yourself in this industry

00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,440
outside of the education thing and outside
of working at like a large, big tech

00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600
company is really figuring out
what company do

00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,280
you think get acquired, even if it doesn't
get acquired for a lot of cash.

00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,640
Being a someone who worked at a place
that did

00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:51,000
exit gives you a certain level
of social capital in the ecosystem.

00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,000
So how do you go about making
that you've had that experience clearly?

00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,520
How do you go about making that
that evaluation?

00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,760
So the de-risking yourself, you've
talked about that in terms of essentially

00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,840
leveraging your genius, which I feel like
you should do universally anyway.

00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,960
But how do you evaluate a company
that you think

00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,360
can actually have the potential to,

00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,920
you know, to to actually have an exit?

00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:15,360
Yeah.

00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,760
I mean, for me, if I was someone
who was still like working

00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,760
as an operator,
I personally be looking at companies.

00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,240
This is my own personal thing.

00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,240
Any company that I see that is being built

00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,400
upon a current policy change

00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,680
I think has a lot of a lot of potential.

00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,440
Like one of them
I think is going to be big.

00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,560
And if people see it, please jump on it
because I think it might be a thing.

00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,200
There's a lot of decriminalization
and legalization around psychedelics.

00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:43,600
Okay.

00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,160
So I do see a world where there's
marketplaces and consumer brands

00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,800
built around psychedelics,

00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,720
similar like the marketplaces
that you might see for marijuana.

00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,160
What they want is weed
maps, things of that nature.

00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,560
We had Jewel out here with the
with the tobacco.

00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,280
Unfortunately, that was a
and that was a different thing.

00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,000
Know psychedelics are I mean, yeah.

00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,640
So they already did in Oregon.

00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,120
They're putting a bill up here
in California.

00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,720
So it's like, where do you think
the puck is going around policy?

00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,760
Because I think the biggest companies in
the future are going to be able to see

00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,320
all these policy changes,
whether it's relaxing or adding new ones

00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,560
and a lot of technology creation
and opportunity, financial opportunity.

00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,440
We built upon those. So for me,
that's fascinating.

00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,200
For most people, I think think of like,
what do you what are you seeing

00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,600
and where do you think the puck is going
and see if you can find companies

00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,200
that are building around.
Where do you think the puck is going?

00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,520
I mean, I've heard that analogy actually
has someone on my show

00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,320
talked about see where the puck is going,

00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400
But I didn't hear
it, which is interesting around policy,

00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,360
which is a fascinating way
to kind of think about it.

00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,600
Right, in terms
of where you think policy is going.

00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,000
And and then because that's that is very,
very important, because that does make

00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,960
that does make or break and it makes often
industries and opportunities,

00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,200
which is interesting. Right?

00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,720
Actually that's I didn't think about it
from that perspective And psychedelics

00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,720
there's I didn't think about it from that
there's obviously still weed and how

00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,360
and how drinks are going to be done within

00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,240
we like I said, one of my show
that actually had where you can

00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,040
essentially get high up a drink
without without getting a hangover

00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,600
by using like marijuana,
which is fascinating. Right.

00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,720
And the guy I have to look up,
I forgot his name right now, but he had a

00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:24,880
his product

00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,320
does that and he's in California
and a couple other places but

00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,760
you don't get the hangover
and you and and you can use weed

00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,880
you don't have any of the other health
side effects, but you still get

00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,920
that kind of feeling of that high
that people kind of want to have.

00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,400
So that's very interesting.

00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,920
Like, I never thought of it like a

00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,640
I never thought about it from a policy
point of view

00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,680
in terms of the opportunities
I'm looking at that way.

00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,440
It's a very unique way of looking at it.

00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,080
It's actually part of the reason
why I'm in this strange world that I know

00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,480
you've had. You've been a critic of it.

00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,240
I talked to a little bit about it,
like Web3 Like what your and your

00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,440
as a product person.

00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,280
I can understand why you have it
because we're horrible at product design.

00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,800
But do you see what do you see there?

00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,520
If you don't have a thought in it,
you don't have to.

00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,720
But in terms of like a policy opportunity,
in terms of that,

00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,640
when it comes to the inherent
blockchain technology and not not

00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:18,560
I think obviously trading nfts
as anything that that is dead.

00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,480
But in terms of actually using the ledger

00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,160
and blockchain as a policy,
do you see opportunity there?

00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,040
And if not, you know, we can,
we can speak to that.

00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,920
Yeah, I'm I'm not super like,
you know, I'm as you know, I'm not super

00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,040
deep in the world of work being crypto,
but what I've gotten from

00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,600
at least blockchain in the whole like,
you know, saving things on chain

00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:39,840
and all that kind of stuff.

00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,640
From what I've gotten from my own outside
looking in thing, it seems like there's

00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,400
epic applications around HIPA compliance

00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:55,960
and the world of health when it comes down
to data records, data storage and

00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:56,840
leveraging that

00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,840
data over time and knowing that this data
is the right data, things of that nature.

00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,800
So I've heard that there's going to be

00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,240
a bunch of applications
in the world of health.

00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,480
Yeah, that's what I, that's
what I've heard, but I haven't

00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,280
heard anything outside of that.

00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,440
As you know, I'm not as deep. No,
they're not as deep.

00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,200
So I don't have to spend a lot of time
there.

00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,200
I would like to talk about your,
your, your,

00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,320
your feelings about engineering

00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,800
versus product design.

00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,960
If you were advising a founder,

00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,480
would you advise them to be better
at coding or better at design?

00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,200
I think I know the answer,
but I'd like to hear definitely design.

00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,280
Okay. Why?

00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,040
Definitely design,

00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,400
Because you'll be able to showcase
exactly what you're thinking to people.

00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,960
And you wouldn't might make
you wouldn't have to pay for a designer.

462
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,000
So that's also a thing.
It's a money saving thing too.

00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040
But me, I don't have the deepest design

00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,040
background
like I just do wireframes via or figma.

00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:51,880
And then I illustrated, I make it

00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,880
a clickable prototype via Marvel.

00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,880
But yeah, I think, you know,
you see people like,

00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,400
people learn how to code, learn
how to code, learn how to code.

00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,320
I'm like, okay,
but if you can't show people

00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,320
what you're actually trying to build,
whether it can work or not,

00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,240
you can get
you can get so much more across the people

00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,640
when they can see the thing

00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,720
versus when you're abstractly
talking about the thing. Yes.

00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,120
So I think I hope that more folks are

00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,720
it doesn't have to be you have to be
the greatest designer in the world.

00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,480
You just have to be able to show people
what you're talking about.

00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,040
Yeah, I agree.

00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,640
I agree. So we talk about startups.

00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,600
What would you say startups?

00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,600
What are the
what's the most normal reason for failure?

00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:35,200
Because one of the things

00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,360
we're going to talk about is people
talk about all the reasons for success.

00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,160
But again, a lot of
it has to do with timing their networks.

00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,400
Let's talk about failure.

00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,040
What do you think
is the top reason for failure

00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,600
of believing
that the market is bigger than it is

00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,840
because you sold it
to some of your friends

00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,600
and some of their companies
and some of their buddies?

00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Because, you know, a lot of our stuff, you
know, that's a that was a web3 problem.

00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,760
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,240
So it's like that's

00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,760
that's the thing that I've seen a lot
like especially on the coasts.

00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,520
People think because people bought up
you're thinking California about a thing

00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,720
in New York that the same thing
will happen in the state of Michigan

00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,360
or the same thing
will happen across the country

00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:17,080
and tastes and preferences
and how people like to do things

00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,600
and also the work that they do
and the style of work.

00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,600
So many things.

00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,200
People think the market is bigger

00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,760
because the people
who are like them, like it.

00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,160
But how many people like you are in the
in the in the US

00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,560
and then the globe, one that comes to mind
for me all the time on the when it comes

00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,360
on a consumer facing software is those
who are looking to build companies

00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,840
around people that like move all the time
or traveling on flights all the time.

00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,040
I'm like, how many flights
do you think the average American takes?

00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,080
And the average American only lives
roughly 15, 12 to 15 miles away

00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,080
from the city, one which their mother was
when they were born.

00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,840
So building for

00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,680
building for trends
that are very insular to the group

00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,080
you identify with end up being the worst
consumer businesses that I've seen.

00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,600
Which is very hard, though, right?

00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,920
Because it's like,
So how do you get yourself

00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,640
from being in the bubble,
from being external?

00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:21,120
Like, is there any habits or things
that one can do to go beyond that?

00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,080
I actually think you can you can
you can take your product that look

00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,840
that is internal facing
and figure out a way to lose a solution

00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,520
that is actually more consumer
facing and friendly.

00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,640
If you get out of the bubble
and figure out how to focus.

00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,800
But I found being doing that
simple thing is very hard, right?

00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,600
Because people say, Yeah, so what do you
as a as a person experience in product?

00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,280
What do you recommend? Are some

00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,200
institutional

00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,840
habits that a founder or an organization

00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,880
could take to prevent them
from seeing the consumer bubble?

00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,520
The first thing is knowing
what bubble you're in.

00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,040
Like really?

00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,440
I really being real
with the kind of bubble that you're in.

00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Like me, I live in L.A.

00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,280
before here, I lived in D.C.

00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,920
and also knowing that the people that
I come across are folks who are VC backed

00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:13,280
founders, operators at Big Tech's VCs,
all that kind of stuff, and realizing how

00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520
small of a portion of the work

00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,680
of the even the white collar workforce
that even is.

00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:20,560
Yeah.

00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,200
So I know being aware of the bubble

00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,200
you're in and then seeking out

00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,360
seeking out perspectives
outside of the bubble that you're in.

00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,640
So for myself,
I listen to This American Life quite often

00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,480
and they talk about things
that do are not attributed

00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,840
to like tech ecosystem and VC backed this
and all that kind of stuff.

00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,040
I also like to listen to business podcasts
that are not from the lens of software.

00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,680
Like I listen to one about
pet food earlier today.

00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,240
Okay,

00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,400
I was listening to that.

00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,480
It was like this fresh
pet pet food company

00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,360
that was like born in six
and is still around now in 2023.

00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,120
So for me, it's like knowing you're

00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,240
knowing the bubble year and finding
whether it's podcasts,

00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,600
I find content consumption
that is via podcasts or books.

00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,640
The easiest way to open my mind.

00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,640
That's the way that I always did it
when I was a kid, is is able to do that.

00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,360
And then also leveraging the Internet
in the way of knowing

00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,280
that, knowing the kind of people
you usually follow or usually listen to

00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:30,000
and being willing to follow
or listen to someone

00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,920
that is not a carbon copy of the people
that you typically download.

00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,160
So that's I think those are the
those are the three things that I've done

00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,280
which helped me
like reach outside of the bubble

00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,280
that we're in because as you know,
it's super easy for us in our ecosystem

00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,120
to stay in our bubble and not feel a need
to be outside our bubble.

00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,240
And if our bubble rocks with it,
then everybody should.

00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,000
But then you realize how small your bubble
actually is.

00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:55,880
No, it's been a problem.

00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,800
I saw that problem when I was in policy
and politics when I ran.

00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,160
I mean, particularly,
you know, those who are in office.

00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,240
This particularly, I can just say it
is more on the Democratic side

00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,240
because I think the Republicans
tend to do this better

00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,760
not not not necessarily complement,
but they tend to do it better

00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,640
in terms of being able
to communicate a simple message,

00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Yeah, it is a company
because they're able to get shit done.

00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,840
They are, as I'm understanding
what their people are saying.

00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,000
And I found that
a lot of Democratic legislators,

00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,920
you know, they make it very complicated.

00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,640
And so one of my favorite books
with product design

00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,120
you've probably read is insanely simple.
Have you read that book?

00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360
I have not read that,
but I've heard it's a good one.

00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,000
It's a great one.

00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,520
But there's a simple
there's a lot in there, he said.

00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,160
Like it, you know, it's simplicity
is an all or nothing proposition.

00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,520
Either everything is simple
or everything is complicated.

00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,320
And the reason why is challenge.

00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,560
It is challenging actually,
to keep making things simple,

00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,480
because you have to
you have to keep coming back to that.

00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,320
Like I've this is hard. It's really hard

00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,360
and I've try to do it every day.

00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,200
My business is it's very, very difficult.

00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,880
Right.

00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,320
And and I think, you know, so legislators
get into the mode where they

00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,440
they they think that everybody
thinks around them like that.

00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,360
They understand that.

00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:07,840
They think people understand
what they're saying.

00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,840
And most of the time they're just speaking
in Chinese to people like they have.

00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,400
They're not living this life
that you live.

00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,360
They have no idea
what the hell you're talking about.

00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,000
You have to break it down at a simple,
like seventh grade level

00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,480
that people can understand and repeat it
10,000 times.

00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,640
Like, that's the only way you get it.

00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,000
But I found business is the same way, and
I think some of that is going to help me.

00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520
That goes back to your point of

00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,600
de-risking yourself and
you repeat a message over and over again.

00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,840
It's knowing
like where your genius is finding that

00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,840
make it as simple and just repeat it
over and over and over again.

00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Right?

00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,880
And that's the but that is the
that is the hard part to do.

00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,120
So I agree.

00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,480
All right.

00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,040
So I want to talk a little about
investing that I have a couple of round up

00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,480
questions to it.

00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,040
So investing,
what's the most important thing

00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,680
you look for
when you invest in a business?

00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,960
The most important thing I look for

00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,600
is exposure to the problem space
that you're building in.

00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,520
Now, this doesn't have to come
from a traditional job.

00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,880
It does not have to come

00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,760
from an educational experience,
but it can come from one of those two.

00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,200
Or could it came, Hey, you're around
this kind of thing growing up.

00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,560
You know, you
you helped out your your your uncle,

00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760
your aunt, your mom,
your brother, your sister with something.

00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,960
It's just like, where did you get
the exposure to the problem space?

00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,760
I don't want the exposure to the problem

00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,520
space to come from
something that you read online.

00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,120
This is something that I think
a lot of people tend to do

00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,200
is like I like lived experience with it.

00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,000
If you haven't had lived experience
with it, then I'm less so

00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,440
gung ho for the solution that you came up
with because you never lived it.

00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,800
So if you've lived it, then you have a
you have your more than likely

00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,320
have a unique insight that cannot be found
from just reading a blog post

00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,320
or a book or read, or listen to

00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,560
a podcast about the problems in the world.

00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,240
It's great when you've experienced
some of the problems in the world,

00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,520
whether it's like you, you've seen them,
you volunteered in them.

00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,840
So that's kind of the way I look at it.

00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,640
Like what problem did you have?

00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,720
What exposure to get to the problem space,
whether it's academic, an actual job

00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,840
or growing up or volunteering.

00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,120
There's a lot of ways to expose yourself
to problem spaces that are not typically,

00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,840
this is my 9 to 5 job.

00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,280
Got it?

00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,280
No, it makes total sense. Makes sense. So.

00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,480
All right,
what do what do founders get most wrong?

00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,320
Most often you think

00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,200
that VC backed founders?

00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Yes, sure.

00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,080
Okay.

00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,360
Founders in general,
people are building things in general,

00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,400
believing that

00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,560
capital raised
or not going to the capital.

00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:48,680
Right.

00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:53,760
Because I want this to be more applicable
than just people who raised money

00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,600
believing, believing

00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,360
too much in the solution and less
so in the problem that they're solving.

00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,440
I think a lot of people who, you know,

00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,440
you you probably seen in many
a time as well happened to myself.

00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,840
Yes. How how tied
we can get to the solution

00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600
that we came up with versus being like,
okay, yeah,

00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,840
this solution might not work,
but I'm more married.

00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,000
So making sure that the problem gets
solved versus the solution I came with is

00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,160
this is a solution
that solves the problem.

00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,120
So you got to get tired.

00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280
You got to get very married to the problem

00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,320
that you're looking to reduce versus
the solution that you came up with.

00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,960
And I think it's hard for us to do that

00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,600
because it's like,
okay, I launched my first thing.

00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,000
We we were seeing some traction.

00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:40,920
I feel like this should work.

00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,200
I find this to work because people wrap
too much of their identities into the

00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,120
the companies that they rob too much
of their identities into the company.

00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,640
I think that's the problem, right?

00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,520
So you can't make an IT

00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,400
it's hard to make objective decisions
when you feel like the decisions you're

00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,840
making are making decisions
about your own identity.

00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,240
Yeah, And I've had a

00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,760
a wakeup call with my identity
because you shouldn't tie your identity

00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,880
to actually even what you do yet to tie
your identity to the values you have.

00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,760
Those agree
that'll make your life a lot easier.

00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,880
And I didn't realize that.

00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,040
And I think when people realize that,

00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,040
it makes it easier to move off of an idea
or a career path,

00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,400
or when the athlete has to retire,
they realize like, my identity isn't this.

00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:21,880
That's not who I am.

00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,240
Exactly. I definitely agree with that.

00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:25,000
So that's kind of how I look at it.

00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:25,400
All right.

00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:26,960
So how about investors?

00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:27,640
What's the most important?

00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,720
What do investors get wrong? Most often

00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,080
believing that if they are

00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,760
not the customer for their product,
then there's no customer for the product.

00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,280
A lot of them do that.

00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,280
A lot of folks are like,
I wouldn't use their my friends wouldn't

00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,280
use it, my partner wouldn't use it,
my kids might not use it.

00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,640
Then there's like not a market for it.

00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,640
But that comes back to the insularity
of people's networks, right?

00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:55,680
So I think that's the biggest thing
that investors get wrong, is like,

00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,320
if I wouldn't buy it,
then who would buy it?

00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,960
That's not true
because everyone is not usually,

00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,880
which is why you need more equity
in an investment.

00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,480
What's more, things would happen.

00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,080
But we have a dominant perspective
that comes from a closed network

00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:16,000
is not only a people only think white
male, they think that that's part of it,

00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,160
but it's also a closed system
in terms of where they went to school,

00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,160
who their network is.

00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,320
So it becomes a very like a very,
really narrow view

00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,400
of what innovation can look like
when we're serving

00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,120
a very diverse population in this world,
more diverse than we ever have.

00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,840
And there's so many underserved markets,
I believe, because of that 100%.

00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,120
I definitely agree with you.

00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:37,320
Yeah. Okay. All right.

00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,720
A little bit. Talk about your career
a little bit.

00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,880
So what's the name of your company
is Stealth Startup.

00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,280
And I read something about it.

00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:49,040
It's the it's like the intersection
of like software.

00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,880
And so I think I can give you tell me.

00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,320
So the company

00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920
we haven't released this publicly,
so I'll just still talk about it

00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,600
in the abstract.
I'll just. Okay. okay. Here it is.

00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,880
So the company is not really cause those
that are we're just working and stuff.

00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,080
So the core of what we're looking to do

00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,120
is looking to reduce the labor shortage
that we see in the trades.

00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,720
Think HVAC, plumbing, electrician,
clean energy, things of that nature.

00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,000
That's where I have to stop, though.

00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,520
Okay, on like what we're doing.

00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,520
But we will be people learn

00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,920
more about it at the end of next month
when we're actually live.

00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Okay. All right.

00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,440
That'll be very interesting
because there is a

00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:29,000
and you know,

00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,320
there's some I know people in unions
that would have a lot of apprentices.

00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480
They're probably be interested
in working with you on that, too.

00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,920
Once you if you get that upsell
because it's you know

00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,080
they have a lot of labor
shortages across the board period.

00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,040
So that's very interesting. Okay.

00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:43,440
All right.

00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,160
So okay,
let's let's talk about some things

00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,880
that you might have gone
through like personally.

00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,520
So can you think of a time that you failed
and how you grew from that?

00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,760
It can be in business, It can be personal.

00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,440
It's high time that I failed.

00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,280
I would say when I was trying to

00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,320
when I first graduated from USC,
So I went to grad school at USC.

00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,840
My first was to grad school at USC.

00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,480
I was recruiting for full time
product jobs

00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,760
and most of the opportunity
unfortunately was in S.F..

00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,120
I did not want to move to SS,

00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,280
so I was really

00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,840
trying hard to get a full time product
job out here in L.A.

00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240
What ended up happening
is that unfortunately that didn't happen,

00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,440
so I ended up having to take a product
manager internship post-grad,

00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,560
making $12 an hour here in L.A.

00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,520
Imagine $12 an hour for four
and a half months straight.

00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,120
And in L.A.,
that's poverty level, top of poverty.

00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,720
yes, it is. Yes, it is.

00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:40,560
So that is that was one of the times
where I was like,

00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,120
you're in my noodles every night.

00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,040
Yeah, it was

00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,880
it was like I was being too idealistic
about what I wanted my next steps

00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,040
to be putting me in situations
I did not want to be in at that time.

00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,640
Yes, it did. It definitely did that. But

00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:59,520
I learned from that
and I learned what I did learn from that.

00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,240
Is that wild? The wild?

00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,400
These steps may have to change in ways
you don't want them to.

00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,600
You can still hold the same angle.

00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,640
Like I just I could still went to San
Francisco and then moved back down to L.A.

00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,520
at some point.

00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,360
But I think I had a certain level
of idealism about what my next step

00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,720
should be, which ended up me like,
you know, not securing a full time product

00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:26,920
job out here for the first four
and a half months when graduated

00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,040
and taking that internship
for $12 an hour.

00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,880
So that's that was a lesson
learned in a lot of ways.

00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,000
okay, great.

00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,080
All right.

00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:37,760
How about this?

00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,840
What is you have a committee of three
to advise you on life or business.

00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:47,040
Who are these three
people and why am I would say

00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:47,800
for a

00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,040
more for my for my personal life,
I would say my partner,

00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,480
she gives me a lot of

00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,120
she's a good sounding board in that
in that way

00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,000
I would say my other two that I go to
would be like my dad for sure,

00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,520
because he's worked and worked in business
in a variety of ways.

00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,360
And also,
you know, he came here when he was 18,

00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,840
So he has a lot of experience
about just like life in general.

00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,800
And then my last one,
I want to use someone outside of that

00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,240
one person that I really do

00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,800
admire, their counsel
and the way that they help me

00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,360
navigate is Charles
Hodson from Precursor B.C.

00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,240
He was one of our backers.

00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:33,200
He's one of our larger backers
in our in my last company.

00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,160
And he doesn't only give great advice
about how to navigate the VC ecosystem

00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:44,080
that we're in, but he also gives good life
advice from a lens of a life lived.

00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,800
So that's
that's the last person I would say like

00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,400
if I had to go to folks
and like bring them, or if I brought them

00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,240
three together,
one of them would be able to help navigate

00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,000
the the,
the situation that I'm thinking about.

00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,240
So those are my three.

00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,160
Okay.

00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,560
You speak of that.

00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,000
You you had a quote you mentioned on
Twitter that you find it strange

00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,680
that people believe that you can ever be
the same after you lose a parent. Yes.

00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,520
I'm assuming this has happened to you

00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:19,080
so what changes in a person do you think?

00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,280
I guess it's all personal.

00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,240
Like what changes and what
what is it that you reflect on in terms

00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:27,240
of changing as a person
that changes you fundamentally?

00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,920
I think

00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,880
losing the

00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,560
person, losing someone that knew
you more than anybody else is a very

00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,840
transformative experience
in a lot of ways.

00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,320
Unfortunately,
I have friends as well as myself,

00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,680
both lost like mothers and fathers
and things of that nature.

00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,960
I think that people

00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,960
don't really know who they are
until they've gone through grief,

00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,880
because grief because grief is a sadness
that you walk with all the time.

00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,360
So that's kind of what what it is
in the ways that I've changed.

00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,120
You know, I it's a sadness that you walk
with all the time.

00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,160
Tell me about that.

00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,240
What It's something like, you know,

00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:11,040
it's on you and you don't ever know
when it's going to pop up.

00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,840
So that's the thing about grief.

00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,560
For those
who may have never experienced it,

00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,120
you never know when it's going to pop up
or when it's going to hit you.

00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,120
It's not always like,

00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,120
you're breaking down, crying
kind of thing, but it can disrupt

00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,240
some of the nicer moments when it does,

00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,560
because then your mind shows off to
to that.

00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:35,160
So for me, like,
I don't know fully how how I'll change.

00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,040
It'll be a year next month.

00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,560
I'm so sorry for your loss.

00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,800
Here is the hardest. Thank you.

00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:41,760
The first year is the hardest,

00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,640
but from what I've heard from folks,
as time goes on, things get easier.

00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,120
But I think it never goes away.

00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:49,360
Yeah, I haven't lost my.

00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,080
Thank God
I've lost my parents, unfortunately.

00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,680
Yet it's a cycle of life
that you prefer to lose your parents.

00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,400
Your parents lose you because that's

00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,080
like I can tell you,
I've seen that because my sister died.

00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,240
So you see, I see what?

00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,520
Obviously,
I go through my pain too, for that.

00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,040
But my parents, it's an unimaginable
level of grief that they've gone through.

00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:10,440
Yeah.

00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,160
So I think the thing that changes
the most, at least for me in the last

00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,360
year, has really you reevaluate

00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,720
what what kind of
connections you really want in your life.

00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,440
Like, you know, we all have these
like some like loose ties.

00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:26,960
You got friends.

00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,640
This is where it really makes you, like,
think about, like, you know, if

00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,880
if I, if you were to pass earlier than you
expected.

00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,080
Are you spending time

00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,840
with the people that you truly want to
or are you doing it out of obligation?

00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,920
And I think one thing
that I definitely have

00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,920
made myself really

00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,320
not want to do is
I didn't want to do it previous,

00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,240
but I really don't want to do it.

00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,240
Now is spending time
with people out of obligation

00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,480
and also those who don't pour into you
versus just take out of you.

00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,120
And you realize that when you
because you lose the person

00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,560
that would always pour into you
and you you miss that in

00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,120
when you don't have that, you know,
you got to find the deficit

00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160
somewhere in the deficit, really,
you got to fill that deficit somewhere.

00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,480
And the best way to do that is continuing
to surround yourself with people

00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,000
who pour into you versus those who don't.

00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,440
Because, you know, when a parent passes,
you can get off your frustrations

00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,640
about people
not pouring into you, into them

00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,760
and then they'll pour into you
when they're failing.

00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,600
You're frustrated. You
no longer have that.

00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,960
So you then really, really prioritize

00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,920
those who pour in because you've lost
someone who did a lot of it.

00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:38,800
That was deep.

00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,440
I appreciate that.

00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,400
Well, all right, final question.

00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,840
This is not an easy one.

00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:51,200
It what's an important truth you have that
very few people agree with you on

00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,680
a lot of my tweets.

00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,320
But you get choose what you know.

00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,200
I'll probably have one
that you're thinking about.

00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:58,920
I just thought about

00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,240
I just thought about one of the things
that you just that you say.

00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,320
It's like, let me let me know it.
Let me do it.

00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,480
So the one I was the one
I was thinking about was how people

00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,880
how men really underestimate
the importance of

00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,960
who they end up
marrying in terms of their career.

00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,640
Yes. See, I always get pushback on that,
and I figured that was one.

883
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,000
So I got that from men and women,
because I do think men,

00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:23,680
especially upwardly mobile men.

00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:24,640
And, you know, you're

00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,640
you're really trying to have a good life,
have a good quality of life.

00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,080
I think who men choose to partner with,
they should up the bar

00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,520
because when you look at it,
it's like a lot of men's lives

00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,600
get all disheveled and torn all about
and all that kind of stuff

00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,880
because they chose a partner off a purely

00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:47,080
sometimes either
physical attraction or convenience,

00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,440
or they like, they cook, they clean,
they do the domestic stuff.

00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,600
But like, those things are great.

00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,520
But is this the same person
who can help build

00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,480
the life that you're looking to build.

00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,840
And every every woman is not equipped
for that.

00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,400
Like the tweet, exactly the same tweet.

00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:03,720
Was that like I was like

00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:08,040
men who are upwardly mobile and educated
should not partner with women

00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,520
who are financially insecure
and non ambitious

00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:16,400
because it will be a more of a liability
to your life than an asset.

00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:20,760
But the reason I get pushback on
that is because I do believe inherently

00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,880
there are men and women
who believe that women

00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,000
inherently are a value add to a man's life
no matter what.

00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,760
I fundamentally do not believe that

00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,160
that's something that I've

00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,400
never truly believed,
even though people want you to believe it.

00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,600
Like it depends on the type of woman
is not any woman, it's the type of woman.

00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,880
And that type of woman
is not a blanket type of woman.

00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,840
It's like the type of woman
that is best for you.

00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,080
And that's the thing
that I was really pushing on for folks.

00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,160
But people tend to push back on that

00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,920
because they believe that
it's like devaluing the value of a woman.

00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,440
It's not really doing that.

00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,640
It's more saying, what type of woman
do you really value and making

00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,480
sure that you look at it from that long
term game versus the short term thing.

00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,720
Because you go scratch that itch, you go,
okay, cool.

00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,240
I was with her for a little bit.
It's fine, it's cool.

00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,400
But then see

00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,240
all these other brothers and sisters
that you really like.

00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:17,400
that would be that would be the move.

00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:18,440
That would be the move.

00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,240
But that's kind of the that's the main one
I've gotten pushback over the years

00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,440
is because people believe that

00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,840
obviously this is,
you know, imbalanced men, women thing.

00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,880
But it's like for me,
I like men definitely should choose better

00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,720
because too many men's lives
get derailed from not doing that.

00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,560
Yeah, that's definitely controversial.

00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,000
But hey, we're all about disruption.

00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,560
So I look, I appreciate you coming on.

00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,080
Josh is great to have you on.

00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,720
It's going to be a great show.

00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,320
Definitely look forward to keep it us
keep us in touch as your new venture.

00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,280
You comes about. Definitely will.

00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,800
We'll make sure we share
with the ecosystem.

00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,960
Really appreciate
you coming on then. Yeah, of course.